Why vote for Kerry? Because it will give John McCain a better shot at the Presidency 4 years from now!

If Bush gets 4 more years the country will be so F'ed up that no one will want it.

If Bush wins short the dollar all you can...

Heh.... Fortunately, Bush will win.

you're a retard. read the news or something, you pure pure idiot. bush is the worst theng to ever happen to us.

you are possibly the dumbest piece of crap that ever walked the earth. Bush is the one that saved this nation after sept. 11

I agree with you. Thank you for sharing the update. It is interesting to have it discussed widely so that we can gain more objective opinions.
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I don't agree with everything in this post, but you do make some very good points. I'm very interested in this topic and I myself do alot of research as well. Either way it was a well thought out and nice read so I figured I would leave you a comment. Feel free to check out my website sometime and let me know what you think......
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I was very pleased to find this site.I wanted to thank you for this great read!! I definitely enjoying every little bit of it and I have you bookmarked to check out new stuff you post.
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yeah, and bush did win. HAHAHAHAHA--Good bye Tom Daschle

hey

kerrys a fag... go bush

Not exactly cogent, there. McCain would have a better shot in an open election, with NO sitting president.

Personally, I prefer Sam Brownback

It's hard to find knowledgeable people on this topic, but you sound like you know what you’re talking about! Thanks
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GO MCANINE!

All I have to say is this. When he was at the Grand Canyon, why couldn't he keep his big fat mouth shut? Why couldn't he have said something like "yeah I made a mistake voting for that Iraq resolution because I trusted the son-of-a-bitch".

I think he said that during the debate...just in a sweeter hound-doggish tone

Thanks for sharing this useful information! Hope that you will continue with the kind of stuff you are doing.
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It would have been clever and would have shown good communication skills. Right to the point !

He actually said that..."..We voted for the use of force only if all the legal instances were exhausted...;..the inspections, the UN resolutions, etc."

He could have said:
Fool me once: shame on you
Fool me twice... ah mean, you can't fool me...

This is a really good post. Must admit that you are amongst the best bloggers I have read. Thanks for posting this informative article.
Chicago Dentist

My understanding is that the Bush people challenged Kerry to say how he would have voted knowing what he knew at that point. The key word here is "challenge". When told by the reporters that he had been challenged by the President, Kerry responded that he wasn't the type to shrink from a "challenge" and then proceeded to make the biggest mistake of the campaign. I think the Republicans knew their man.

Thanks for sharing this useful information! Hope that you will continue with the kind of stuff you are doing.
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My understanding is that the Bush people challenged Kerry to say how he would have voted knowing what he knew at that point. The key word here is "challenge". When told by the reporters that he had been challenged by the President, Kerry responded that he wasn't the type to shrink from a "challenge" and then proceeded to make the biggest mistake of the campaign. I think the Republicans knew their man.

My understanding is that the Bush people challenged Kerry to say how he would have voted knowing what he knew at that point. The key word here is "challenge". When told by the reporters that he had been challenged by the President, Kerry responded that he wasn't the type to shrink from a "challenge" and then proceeded to make the biggest mistake of the campaign. I think the Republicans knew their man.

He should have voted AGAINST the resolution to invade Iraq. Anyone with half a brain could have predicted that would be an obvious 'I told you so' vote.

He did vote against it - right before he voted for it.

Only voted for it because Bush lied to the senate. When he voted against it, it was because the lies were uncovered. I wish that deomcrates were less noble and fought as dirty as the pubs.

eye whish democrates new hoow two spel.

eye whish u new hoow two spel

Saying that Bush lied to him just like he lied to the American people is too easy, understandable and makes nothing but pure common sense. However, it offers no opportunity to explain the fine nuances that only Kerry can see and appreciate. It is also far too short - only 8 words.

Noble ? My God ,are you people THAT delusional to consider yourselves NOBLE ?

You mean you wish, say, that the Democrats would do such things as try to keep a third candidate off the ballot by legal challanges? Naaah, they are too nice to do that. Oh, wait! There's this Nader thing... -dk

Anybody see Kerry on one of the morning shows this week? They asked him whether Iraq was a mistake, AND HE STILL DOESN'T HAVE AN ANSWER! Gee, you think they might ask you that in the debates? This is unbelievable. He should have just had a stock 2-3 sentence answer memorized. SINCE MARCH!
We're going to get 4 more years of Chimp because Kerry is such a fucking inept politician.

Yeah, Kerry's so "inept" that he kicked all the other 9 Democratic candidates' butts by a huge margin!

That's the kind of rope-a-dope "inept" that inspires me!

Face it-- people pull for the genuine, idealistic, honest, hard-working underdog, even if he has clumsy moments.

I met another crusty Independent and Vietnam Veteran who is all for Kerry last night (he was the financial manager where I bought my new car). I thought he was a Repub. all the way, but he totally supports Kerry! Kerry inspires personal loyalty from the gut.

"Face it-- people pull for the genuine, idealistic, honest, hard-working underdog, even if he has clumsy moments."

If that was true, then Dean would have had the nomination.

Kerry won because the DNC threw its weight behind him, pure and simple.

I agree... Dean was politically assassinated by the media, plain and simple. (IMNSHO)

THe Republicans killed Dean. It's soo obvious. Dean started looking crazy and the GOP jumped on him. Dems got skittish and ran off of him. They went from mr insane man to Herman Munster

You apparently do not undertand the meaning of the word loyality. A loyal person would not run away from his fellow soldiers utilizing fictious methods.

You apparently do not understand the spelling of the word "loyalty."

nor indeed fictitious

he may inspire loyalty....but it comes from a place a tad bit lower than my gut.

Joe Lieberman

Oh, you mean the likes of Al Sharpton, Carolyn Brown, Kusinich and Dean? Of course he won the primary - my dog would make a better president than any of the other candidates. Truth is, somebody sobered up from a stupor one morning and realized that we were almost ready to nominate howard dean!

As far as your crusty independent goes, looks like you're just another sap who fell for the song and dance of a car salesman. I'm sure he'll be laughing all the way to the polling booth to vote for Bush, right before he goes out to dinner on the commission $$$ he got off your sale.

"KERRY INSPIRES PERSONAL LOYALTY FROM THE GUT" -

Oh my God that's funny - what planet are you from by the way? Welcome to earth. The only thing that Kerry ever inspired from our guts is nausea - otherwise; this site wouldn't exist!

YOU are fucking stupid to think Kerry was the strongest candidate. The media created Edwards and Massacred Dean. IOWA decided that Kerry should be the Dem nominee... FUCKING IOWA. WHO CARES ABOUT IOWA? If California had been able to decide things would have gone differently and we would stand a chance. I'M FROM MA. I remember the day that Kerry voted for war. I remember how angry I was. Kerry is the WORST candidate out of the bunch. "Liberal Massachusetts" BLAH BLAH BLAH. I go to Northeastern University -- I know Mike Dukakis personally -- I know that Mike Dukakis and John Kerry will have new something in common on November 3rd, if you catch my drift. All of you silly people who are INSPIRED by KERRY are absolutely insane. Be inspired by Kennedy. Be inspired by Dean. Kerry is a fucking losing twit. He has no chance. He never did. He's not running for the people, he's not a product of the times like Dean and Clark were in the primary... He's 60 years old. This is the last year he could have waited to run so he can serve 2 terms. GOD I HATE HIM. Oh, and Edwards is so inexperienced that there is NO WAY in hell he could be president. That is truly scary. Oh well, I'm voting for the ticket anyway so that I can insure that my gay ass doesn't end up placed on a secluded "gay only" Island by the SJC.

"YOU are fucking stupid to think Kerry was the strongest candidate."

I wish I could take away your right to vote for saying such disgusting things. You leave a very ugly mark on your post. I wish they wouldn't allow to post this. Distasteful and does nothing to change my stance. Your insults to other people only discredits you and demonstrates how scarce intelligence can be.

I'm an MA resident too. I couldn't agree with you more. Well put. As much as I love this country and my fellow Americans, I hope everyone else will feel our pain soon.

Kerry will put us all on island, too. Only he'll call it a luxury resort. Why should he listen or respond to the gay community at ALL if we continue to fund him and campaign for him no matter how many times he repeats that marriage is a sacred institution, etc. That goes for every other issue as well...this guy gets his money from corporations -- why should he listen to us when we'll vote for him no matter what he says or does?
And yeah, puh-lease, he is the most uninspiring candidate ever. I think some of his positions are actually to the right of Nixon's.
I'm voting for Nader!

Hey, you can't really blame Kerry on Iowa. Iowa was the only state that took Dean seriously in the beginning. Nobody paid him any attention until he shot up in the polls here because you'd go to a Dean rally and get really excited. You'd say "Oh my GOD, a Democrat who thinks Bush made MISTAKES!" (Yes, maybe you've forgotten 2003). In California, Dean never would have gotten any airtime, and the media would have given us Kerry-Edwards-Gephardt. Kerry would have won anyway because the other two are (possible, though surprising) even bigger losers, but it would have been July before he realized that we weren't all Republicans, and in October Kerry would have finally blown with the correct political winds. At the very, very least, you have to give Iowa credit for creating the Dean phenomenon, and therefore allowing Kerry to notice the winds in time to make things close.

P.S. It was Kucinich's fault that Dean crashed so badly when he made his crazy deal with Edwards. That, and the fact that Dean's support skewed so heavily young, and they got creamed by the old-timers who knew how to work a caucus. Still, I can't decide if I think Howard Dean would really have stood a chance. Instead of blaming Iowa, we should blame the Democrats for all being so inept. Wellstone would have made a kick-ass president, though.

Re: Kerry beating out 9 other Dems - hmm, let's see Howard EAAAAHHH Dean - all he had to do was wait it out until he self-destructed. Lieberman - paleeze. I can't really remember anyone else! As far as your new best friend...he's a Finance Manager at your new car dealer! So he F*&ked you over while you sat there like a dog. That alone should have you running over to the Reps toute suite. Jeez you are a moron

Kerry inspired personal loyalty from the gut. Bush inspired reason loyalty from the brain. Democrats are all about feel-good emotionalism.

Going to war in Iraq to make he world safer was a gut-wrenching decision, and it makes all of us uncomfortable. That doesn't mean that the decision was wrong. SOMEBODY has to start cleaning up that sewer, and at least Bush has the strength of character to do it.

truth is, he IS inept, just not as inept as the rest of the dem candidates were...but he's not stupid...dishonest, but not stupid...definitely scary...are we ever going to have a good choice for a president?

Kerry IS an inept politician,BUT then SO are MOST members of his party.

One word: windsurfing.

...hey now, let's just back off on that windsurfing thing. Up here in the upper left corner of the US map it's as common as mowin' the lawn...

Yes, windsurfing is common up there...for the idle rich. You limosine liberals are so out of touch that you put your guy in front of cameras windsurfing in order to appeal to average voters, not seeing what a stupid move it was. Thanks again you dumb Dems for nominating such a lous candidate!!! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

What the hell? Did you catch the name of this site? We don't love Kerry, we think his windsurfing, goose-hunting, Cheney's-daughter-mentioning moments are deplorable, but I would need 20 volumes to list all of the mortifying, idiotic, hypocritical, and downright dishonest shit coming out of the white house over the past 4 years. George W. Bush has done more to precipitate the decline of this country than any elected official has, ever, in our nation's history (except maybe Joe McCarthy, but I digress). Kerry may be boring, he may be a flip-flopper, he may not have spent a single Christmas in Cambodia, but at this point, who cares? I'd like Clinton back too! But that is, alas, impossible. So we must work with what we have, which is by leaps and bounds the preferable alternative- John Kerry.

Then why are you voting for Kerry? Think about it, four more years of Bush in office the Republicans might become stale or even repulsive to moderate Americans. They might be willing to give a strong Democrat a chance at governing...can you say HILLARY CLINTON 2008!!!

But, four years of Kerry! Even you Dems don't like the guy, think of the swing voters!!! They'll hate him even more when they have to listen to him day after day. Hillary would have little chance in 2012, and be too old in 2016. If you want a Clinton back in office, vote for Bush!

Well now, I suppose that clarifies the issue.
I want neither a Clinton nor a Bush, so now I finally feel thoroughly motivated to vote for Kerry.

Thank you very much:)

I made this exact point to my brother-in-law, who went completely ape-shit over the idea that the dems might/should throw the election in hope of a better 2008/2012. How the dems could so completely fuck up their chance to take advantage of the fault lines in the GOP by nominating Kerry is beyond me.
The Kerry nomination only makes sense for those dems really looking to the future (when hopefully Russ Feingold will finally see how important it is that he take over.)

Windsurfing?
We never said it.
Well, if we did, it must be taken out of context.
Better yet, you are putting a word in my mouth.
Okay, whatever was said, you just shove it.
love, teresa

Don't blame me. I caucused for Dick Gephardt.

I blame ALL Iowans.

I blame Eli Segal who was in charge of General Wes Clark's campaign when they decided NOT to go to Iowa. If Clark was the nominee, Bush would be 10 points behind right now. Let's see....a four star general who is handsome and intelligent-talk about persuading the "security moms."

Clark was the only one of the democratic candidates that I could stand, and now we're stuck with Kerry? Ugh. He's just lucky I hate Bush that much more.

A Clark/Cheney debate would have kicked ass.

Edwards can probably kick Cheney's ass in a debate much better than Clark could have (let's not forget that Clark never exactly displayed a silver tongue), but the vice-presidential debate has NO bearing on the election and is just for entertainment (but don't try it at home).

"Edwards can probably kick Cheney's ass in a debate much better than Clark could have "
Right, thats why Cheney won the debate, good call

sure Cheney kicked Edwards' butt all over the hall, but really, the statement is still true. Clark would have been that much worse...

Clark handsome? He looks like one of the rats from Roger Rabit. He was a shill from Slick and the Hildebeast put in to take out Dean with his dirty tricks staff. He couldn't get elected dog-catcher.

How do I know? Michael Moore endorsed him. Whether old Tub O'Guts eats you (he'll just about eat anything) or endorses you, the result is the same. You end up a big pile of steaming "Moore Dung."

i'm from flint, mi...where micheal moore is from...and let me tell you, he's a bully, a putz, a liar, and completely politically motivated...i don't think he wants office, i just think he wants to cause everyone strife, pain, frustration, did i say pain?, embarrassment, etc...just watch any of his movies! and disengenuous was definitely a good way of referring to him, though not as completely descriptive. why is he this way? all i can think of is: misery loves company.

i would have to disagree with the comment made about michael moore....although this isnt a site about michael moore bashing it looks like some one has taken the liberty of making it a temp. one. A) mike speaks for the underdog B) his movies...none of them have misrepresented any facts that were presented C) none of them had any doctored footage of the events recorded....it's not misery loves company, its giving the people who otherwised are ignored a chance to speak out. This country isn't fuckin flowers and candy open your eyes the poor, disenfranchized, and ill treated people are all around you. mike just opened your eyes to it
- inner city youth

this is one inner city youth that was obviously another child left behind.

Michael Moore is an America Basher who insulted all Americans calling them stupid in an interview...aren't you offended?

"Moore, who considers Americans "possibly the dumbest people on the planet," is himself a celebrated genius � especially when it comes to his grasp of the U.S. Constitution." http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15501

sorry to sound arrogant, but truthfully, there are some pretty stupid people living in the U.S. Of course there are good people here, too, but sometimes its amazing how hypocritical and ridiculous americans can be. And they always try to act so cute. Just look at some of the posts in this forum to demonstrate my point.

Americans are stupid like anybody else with the difference that americans grew up with the stupid notion of "number one"...there's nice smart people out there but not exactly the majority. That said I believe that most people with a good leader can overcome a lot of shortcomings and when I say a good leader I'm talking of someone with no religious fantasies, no demagogy...someone with a lot of common sense.

"i would have to disagree with the comment made about michael moore....although this isnt a site about michael moore bashing it looks like some one has taken the liberty of making it a temp. one. A) mike speaks for the underdog B) his movies...none of them have misrepresented any facts that were presented C) none of them had any doctored footage of the events recorded....it's not misery loves company, its giving the people who otherwised are ignored a chance to speak out. This country isn't fuckin flowers and candy open your eyes the poor, disenfranchized, and ill treated people are all around you. mike just opened your eyes to it - inner city youth"

1-Michael Moore loves America just like Hamas loves America, which is why they offered to distribute his latest steaming pile of dung
2-All of the facts are misrepresented, and often made up. Either hes an idiot or he knows hes decieving people.
2a- He may be an idiot because he dropped out of college due to a lack of parking spaces. PARKING SPACES!
3-Footage is not doctored but it is misrepresented (The "Florida Victory rally" happened in the early afternoon in anticipation of a victory in Florida, The woman he interviews so candidly is actually very involved in campaigning against Bush, Secret service patrol all of DC and I know because I live here yet he makes it some big deal they are in front of the embasy, also when he asked Congressmen to send there children to Iraq he leaves out those who DO have children servin in Iraq and the Congressmen who are in the reserves and wanted to go to Iraq but werent sent because of the danger it put the other soldiers in)

Thats enough, Moore is a liar and he does hate America (look at the comments he makes when hes overseas)

I apoligise for any spelling or gramatical errors I just came home from work and went to class all day before that

So work and school make you stupid? Sorry, I don't buy that excuse.

I won't take your word.

That's sexist.

I completely agree re Wes Clark. The one thing Kerry had to nail from day one wasrthe security issue and he never even came close. Clark would have had no trouble at all and made Bush look uninformed. Clark also would have been far better for VP than Edwards because John brought nothing to the table on the #1 issue.

The only job that Gephardt's experience prepares him well for is RUNNING for President, not BEING the President.

Don't forget the extra hard work to be mundane and boring.

Like the Orange Tan now John but if I vote for ya ya gotta promise never again!!

Let's add the BOTOX to the orange tan cream! What posseses a grown man to do that to himself? If a man is tha insecure in his own skin, then do we want him as president?

Do we really hate W that much?

Of course.

No, we really love our country that much.

Anyone who's been paying attention has ample evidence that the world has become less safe, and our country is less prosperous, with the Republicans in charge of the House, Senate, and Executive Branch. This administration has been a giant clusterf*ck from the get go, and a vote for Kerry/Edwards is a vote to slow our slide further downward.

idiot

No not idiot. This type of people real hate America! They can�t stand it when a good God fearing man is in the white house. So they believe everything the liberal media tells them. They can�t wait to get someone in the white house that will sell us out for anything. You know the old saying �If you don�t stand for something, you will fall for anything�. Even if you do not like Bush because he stand for something good and decent, at lest he stand for something, JFK, stand for whatever is popular today, sure hope he doesn�t change his mind tomorrow about something you believe in.

Some of us maybe don't like what Bush stands for, and don't like the idea of a "god fearing" man in the White House. Just because he stands for something doesn't make it good.

Oh, so the fact that Kerry doesn't have an f'n clue as to where he stands makes it better than someone who does? - I think we're in real trouble with this guy. After all, we're all here on a John Kerry hate site - and the irony is we are his constiuency!!!

"Oh, so the fact that Kerry doesn't have an f'n clue as to where he stands makes it better than someone who does? - I think we're in real trouble with this guy. After all, we're all here on a John Kerry hate site - and the irony is we are his constiuency!!!"

You've been listening to Republican spin too much. I'd rather have someone who is flexible (Kerry) in the white house than someone who is a liar (Bush).

flexible in this case being defined as 'spineless'
as to bush being a liar, let's face it, compared to the last administration, and his current competition, that's like michael moore calling ethiopians fat...
the real problem you have with bush is quite the opposite. when he says something he really means it, and follows through. there's a segment of this society that recoils from truth. that segment is comprised mostly of democrats.

Yeah, I love Ann Coulter too -- she's awesome.

It's so very sad that you think "when Bush says something he really means it."

wow, i'd rather have a president that lies about cum-ing than a president that lies about the reasons for going... to war.

The difference between Clinton and Bush is that Bush's lie has a cost (so far) of 1122 American Troops. On the other hand, Clinton's lie totaled at a cost of one, his dignity. On the other hand, Clinton, unlike Bush, had an uncanny ability to ride the macroeconomic wave of the 1990s. Bush has been unable to improve the economy. He has had the unemployment rate go from 4% to 5.5%. He has to become flexible enough to realize that the Laffer Curve system has its limitations and we can never be sure where we are on the curve. The key word there was flexible. Bush is unwilling to be flexible, which is why he blatantly bullied away other countries when he was about to attack Iraq. Granted, I don't like John Kerry, but I'd rather have him than a man who has a cross shoved so far up his ass that he can't be flexible and has the inability to seperate Church from State.

There is an over whelming lack of proof of anything Bush/Cheney used as a reason to invade Iraq. NO wmd's NO links to AlQueda, NO exportation of terrorism. Saddam was a bad guy, I'll grant you that. But he was contained in his country and doing no harm to Americans. When confronted with the facts that disprove all their reasons, what does this administration do? Continue ranting on the old talking points regardless of facts, regardless of mountains of evidence to the contrary, and then come up with a new talking point "We are exporting freedom" What a crock of BS. America hasn't bought it which explains why Bush/Cheny approval ratings are under 50% and why this election is even close. No one believes we have a snowballs chance in hell to press democracy in Iraq. And if democracy in Iraq is so important to us I have two questions. Why aren't we concerned about democracy in Russia, where Putin is rapidly reestablishing the old Kremlin rules? And what undemocratic dictatorship are we going to spill our young soldiers blood unseating next? I'll answer the last question for you. If Bush gets elected I bet a paycheck we'll be hearing about the push for Tehran next.

And if his humongous foreign affairs blunders aren't enough to persuade you, he has a litany of failures in the domestic arena we can discuss. From allowing campaign donators in big energy right his policies on the environment to no child left a dime to his gifts to the rich tax cuts. Clinton lied about getting a blow job from Monica, Bush lies about blowing our future away with his special interest groups.

I'm no Kerry fan, but America can't afford another 4 years of Bush/Cheney. Retire him and his entire cabinet and let them go down in history as the worst, most destructive administration in history.

Yea my son in law is not very smart and ended up in the Air Force. A Rotc student, now a Major working as a C 130 pilot, has a Masters Degree and serves and protects our country. Yep not a very smart guy!

With regards to Bush having a position, The Daily Show put it best when they likened him to driving into a brick wall without blinking. Yeah, Bush has a position: the wrong one. As someone else on this board pointed out, I'll take a flip-flop over a flop any day!

To paraphrase Alice Cooper, if you're listening to comedians (musicians/actors/etc.) to learn about politics, you're a bigger moron than anyone thought.

it might be a good idea to listen to some comedians. like Bill Hicks, for example, and on some days George Carlin.

Sure, it might be a good idea. If you're looking for laughs. If you're getting a political education from them, ..... well, you're a moron.

i guess sending young men and women over to iraq...the country WITHOUT NUCLEAR WEAPONS and the country who DIDN'T ATTACK US ON 9/11 is right. not only are we being led like blind sheep, we are in love with the man who is doing it...call it a hunch, but would jesus really do that? God fearing men dont Jeopardize their souls inorder to help haliburton get contracts in a country that hasn't posed a threat compared to the saudis or the north koreans. Yes he's a God fearing man (insert sarcastic voice here)

"i guess sending young men and women over to iraq...the country WITHOUT NUCLEAR WEAPONS and the country who DIDN'T ATTACK US ON 9/11 is right. not only are we being led like blind sheep, we are in love with the man who is doing it..."

I agree. Well said

That's pretty good:) yep, well said.

John kerry is not trying to sell out. And people have right to change their when they reflect and find their decisions to be wrong. Have you ever had regrets or made mistakes that lead you to change your way of thinking? Human beings are not software programs that follow the same programming year after year. We all need to be up-dated because we do not know everything. George Bush needs serious up-dating. We have to re-evaluate our decisions and admit when we've made errors in judgment and sometimes change our minds.

Anyone who uses the words "liberal media" is a dumb robot that'll repeat the republicans slogans. Wake the fuck up!!..there's very smart people in the media and then there's the biased ones...

How about looking at the research rather than constantly repeating the party spin. There is an alarming majority of liberals in the media, go to www.mediaresearchcenter.org there are plenty of studies to back up what most americans have come to realize (that the mass media has an alarming lean to the left of center). Furthermore, between the recent Rathergate and NYTrogate B.S. that cBS has tried to pull, there's not doubt in my mind that there is a liberal bias to most of the media.

The very existence of this site helps to solidify my support for BC04. Is it rational to vote for a Kerry based entirely on hatred for Bush?

That is absolutely ridiculous. How convenient for Bush that Dan Rather's blunder happened. Because the end result of that controversy, obviously not reported because of the fiasco caused by CBS's inability to check their sources, was that each person involved in this story stated that while the documents were false, none of the information contained in them was false. How convenient for Bush that this prevented him from having to discuss his silver-spoon upbringing / cowardice. I understand that there is a liberal bias of sorts in the media. However, there are SO many actions taken by the Bush contingency that the media should have made front page, and that should have outraged the nation. Instead these items are shown on the 8th page after the Vioxx lawyer�s ad.

Also - I don't personally give a damn about what Dan Rather did. It is our responsibility to ascertain the truth by looking at the original facts, not someone's version of it. Anyone who takes the media at face value without looking to multiple sources / original sources is the fool. We all know it is spun horribly.

And finally - if I had to chose between a group that forges a document containing entire truths that did nothing to harm anyone (unfortunately) because we as a nation have developed ADHD. Oooo, something shiny or controversial, let's look at that instead of what the true discussion is about - Bush ducking his duty. If I had to chose between that group of media fools and the group leading the current (not forever, no one ever is!) world power who uses forged documents (uranium - Nigeria) as a basis for rallying the country in his State of the Union as well as for actually bringing our nation to war, I'll take the dimwits at a media conglomerate who can't check their sources. We have an irresponsible bastard leading our nation whose strong personal beliefs include the concept of Armageddon. He seems determined to single-handedly bring about that prophecy.

Give me a break.

yup, absolutely ridiculous...
We all know it is spun horribly in one direction. And sure there are outright lies and forgeries in one direction.
But hey, all those lies are really just representing the truths hidden behind them, which we know are there but just can't find, doggone it, although we find a whole lot of real but inconvenient facts that contradict that elusive, hidden truth, but since that would also contradict our cherished beliefs, it's better to report the lies and ignore the facts. Really, it's all okay, really.
But it's absolutely ridiculous to dare speak of a liberal bias in the media...

I agree with your statement, but I just want to say the uranium was said to be from Niger.

Thanks for the correction, that was my mistype. :)

Your points are valid, but the vast majority of the media is seeing all of the information. They are learning about more topics than the average American voter. As a result, they are making a more informed decision. The fact that the Media tends to settle towards the left is perhaps the result of looking at the facts of the past administration.
You would then probably ask, what about the other members of the Media? Well, those members of the media are probably rich and hoarding all there money from Bush's tax cuts. Therefore, they would favor Bush over Kerry.
...its great when your argument is valid

Is not hate, is just pity for this idiot with ilusions of purpose.

Good news- the next 4 years will suck no matter whose in power. Massive debt, chaos in Iraq, duct tape on the Shuttle. The empire is crumbling, and the guy on top might as well be the one that screwed everything up in the first place.

Also, Gephardt ran pointlessly negative attacks that killed Dean's campaign in Iowa, handing the primary to Kerry. So, in fact, you can blame Gephardt's campaign for our current mess. He was the pebble that triggered the Kerry landslide. Of course, you can also blame Dean for not appealing to moderates, and you can blame Clark for skipping Iowa completely.

web sites like this will be illegal if Bush wins.

no pictures of Jesus or how destroying the world is actually part of the Bush base plan to bring on the 2nd coming..

Well, I guess this is the panic room after all.

You opine that websites like this will be illegal when Bush wins, but meanwhile Bush is candid enough to have his internal Administration reports critical of the Administration come out before the election. Somehow, I cannot see Clinton doing that.

Saddam made the supreme bluff, convincing Bush, Kerry, Tony, France, Germany, you and me that he had the WMD, and it got called. Intelligence sucked (not that I necessarily blame Clinton, nearly anyone human would have let their guard down in the post-Cold War). Let's put the resources toward dealing with today, not dissecting yesterday. My son was living in NYC. My daughter is at school in DC. I wanted that bluff called. I couldn't trust the UN to protect me and mine. Still wouldn't.

Cannot say the best candidates are coming to the fore--a good baseball owner representative and an undistinguished senator (the best qualification he has is that he "looks" like a senator). Maybe I need to rethink this and take the baseball owner representative with the hard-won experience over the self-absorbed senator. Bye-bye. Moving on to the "Dubious About W, But Voting for Him" website.

anyone who claims that they used to oppose bush but have decided to support him based on new information is full of shit.

Good.

we are all aware that he is part of those extreme bible thumping nuts who believe in that "rapture" shit right? not that im shitting on religion or anything but uhhh can you say scary?

Spoken like a true believer.

Okay, all can be rectified if Kerry is elected--Dean as Secy. of State!

That would only make me happy if Howard Dean were Secy. of State of Vermont...not the entire nation!

Howard Dean for FOX News Anchor!

Here Here. I will never vote democrat again w/o obama od dean

screw Sec. of State, DEAN FOR MESSIAH!!

I guess I fall into the moderate conservative camp, which also means I cannot vote for Bush. (Let Rove think he is going to win the election for his boss scraping for all those votes by the isolated and ill-informed whti his ugly propaganda).

Wiht all due respect to Dean, he would have assured a Bush victory. And that is why we now have Kerry. He has my vote. Dean would not.

Thanks for pointing that out - if Gephart tanked Dean's run then I cannot blame him, I must thank him. Truth is, Dean tanked himself. He is an angry little troll who crawled out from under his little bridge know by the rest of us as Vermont. Like Kerry, his ultra liberal nonsense might work well for his ultra liberal New England state but it doesn't sit well with most of us.

Is this the best we can do? 9 candidates in a primary and this is what we come up with? No wonder we've lost the white house, the senate and the house. Guess with a nominee like this, nobody in this party wants any of it back anytime soon.

The Republicans have always had the advantage of very little diversity within their ranks. Bush just needs to use the word "evil" and his ranks fall in line behind him--constitutional amendments and Bibles in hand.

While Democrats are occupied with debating each other (and the candidate they wanted to win), Bush is rolling out the Patriot Act and waving goodbye to reasonable bans on assault weapons.

Luckily, Bush is helping us get the cohesion that the Republicans have always had. Bush is our evil. We hate him so much that we'll vote for Kerry!

With Bush out of office, we've nowhere to go but up.

Let's just review the Bush record:

-Record Deficits
-More job losses than Herbert Hoover
-Tax Cuts for the top 1% only
-Supports Drug companies over the actual patients who need the drugs
-No Healthcare Plan
-Turned International Support into International Scorn
-Created a new terrorist haven in Iraq
-Still haven't captured Osama bin Laden
-Documented lying about the reasons for invading Iraq
-Documented lying about service record
-Declared victory in Iraq, right before 1,000+ soldiers and counting die
-Multiple arrests between President and Vice-President
-Drug and Alcohol issues for both the President, Vice-President, and, of course, the twins
-Will probably have to reinstitute the draft to replenish stretched military resources - who wouldn't be able to defend our borders right now if we were invaded
-Oil Buddies and Haliburton show record profits with no-bid contracts from the US Gov't while not actually providing any services
-Created far-reaching legislation that severely restricts the rights and freedoms of Americans
-Senior Cabinet Member indicates that an election that not everyone can vote in would still be valid (sound familiar, Florida?)
-Former President with extensive experience in validating the legitimacy of foreign elections, indicates that Florida does not meet the standards for a fair election and has seen better voting conditions in third world countries

To top this off, Bush insists on running on this record!!! Cakewalk, right? But no, the Democrats nominate the the one guy in the world who can't beat him!!! All Kerry needs to do is point out the items on this list and pack his bags for D.C. and he can't do it!!!

If there is a country left in 2008 (and if we still have the right to vote and aren't put under martial law) Let's hope that Hillary will have time to fix all of this!

So Michael Moore can write too!

Come on... Hillary? 2008 is for Howard Dean.

In 2008 we will be forced to re-elect John Kerry (unfortunately)!

DEAN, DEAN, DEAN, DEAN

Poor Dean. Is he dusting off his medical license?

Dean is over in the Swiss Alps right not enrolled in an advanced, multi-year yodelling course of study. He won't be finished in time for another run. Plus, his wife is the only democrat wife that is uglier than TuhRayZuh, and that's going some.

Dems haven't fielded a canddate with a decent-looking wife since JFK (the real one.) Hell, Slick couldn't even find a decent looking playmate for his cigar and phone sessions. What is it with democrats?

So now politicians' wives have to be good looking to get the vote? That's so screwed up.

Why does everyone forget about the lack of education? Bunnypants is going to turn this country into a 3rd world country if he gets 4 more years!

no offense boys but........please GOD let a woman have a try at this!

There are more women in this country than men. If we all voted, we could get a woman in office.

Nah. That's assuming men would all vote for a man, and women would all vote for a woman. But really, most men will still vote for men, and most women will still vote for the man they're most drawn to. At least Kerry has Edwards for that.

You are a fu**ing moron:

During the Hoover administration 8.1% of jobs were lost, since statistics have been kept in 1939, seven administrations/recessions have lost a higher percentage of jobs. I am in the 25% - 50% range, not the Top 1% and I paid over $2000 less in taxes. You only hurt your cause when you spew out lies. People stop listening, and want you to run to your corner and put on your tin-foil hat to block out the Karl Rove mind control rays... Moron

Bullshit

What a collection of lies. Bush ain't great but you don't have to make shit up about everything to say you don't like him.

"you don't have to make shit up about everything to say you don't like him"

Well, yes we do actually because our candidate cannot run on the merits and the issues so we have to employ this third grader strategy of calling your guy names and making stuff up about him - we're all banking on the hope that if we say enough outlandish lies about Bush then no one will notice that we can't say anything good about Kerry - sure hope it works!

You are a complete moron.

Do you real hate America that much that you believe all that liberal crap, or do you just hate what Bush believes in so much you are willing to believe anything bad? If you can use a computer and the internet, I must assume you are smart enough not to really believe all that media crap. Instead you must hate Bush because he stands for something contrary to the way you are living, and he is a constant reminder to you that what you are doing is wrong. That is the only reason, I can think of, why a person would hate such a moral person.

What to you is America that you keep accusing people of hating it? Because if you believe that America is only apple pie, bible study classes, and criminal military action then you're skipping a lot of the picture. If you believe patriotism is somehow limited to people who drive pickup trucks, or don't care about global issues then you're a part of the problem.

Do you real hate America that much that you believe all that liberal crap, or do you just hate what Bush believes in so much you are willing to believe anything bad? If you can use a computer and the internet, I must assume you are smart enough not to really believe all that media crap. Instead you must hate Bush because he stands for something contrary to the way you are living, and he is a constant reminder to you that what you are doing is wrong. That is the only reason, I can think of, why a person would hate such a moral person.

Do you real hate America that much that you believe all that liberal crap, or do you just hate what Bush believes in so much you are willing to believe anything bad? If you can use a computer and the internet, I must assume you are smart enough not to really believe all that media crap. Instead you must hate Bush because he stands for something contrary to the way you are living, and he is a constant reminder to you that what you are doing is wrong. That is the only reason, I can think of, why a person would hate such a moral person.

bush=moral person

thats a good one. your deadpan sense of humor actually travels well over the internet, and that is quite rare.

Is it possible for you to be more ignorant? Pull your head out of your ass, turn off the Conservative Media (because we all know that the concept of the "Liberal Media" is a lie invented by the Right (Wrong) Wing), and try to use what's left of your mind to come up with an original thought.

Part of what makes Democrats appear weaker is that we will debate issues internally and if we disagree with our Democratic leadership, we'll let them know. While we know that this is just health discourse in the process of finding a middle ground we can all support. If you are a member of the Republican party, you have to drink the kool-aid and buy everything the leadership is selling. Independent thought isn't allowed! So while I may not like Kerry or agree with everything he says, I know that there is an opportunity for my opinion to be heard. And besides, Kerry is still a far better choice than that sad sack of shit that is currently sullying the Whitehouse!

Hillary??? Get real. This country will be so pissed at Kerry 4 years from now that the republicans will be ushered right back into the white house. At least the hatred of Bush evolved - it started with the "he stole the election" rhetoric and escalated when the operation in Iraq bogged down to the point where roughly half the country now either hates him or at least doesn't support him.

Kerry on the other hand, is already hated by half the country and he hasn't even been elected yet! If anybody thinks Kerry is a long term solution to anything think again - he will be a long term liability to the party. If anybody thinks he's just keeping a seat warm for Hillary until the next one forget it - parties always renominate a sitting president plus, the country will be so disgusted with him in 4 years that all of us will be voting Republican.

I'd almost rather do it now so we can set Hillary up for the next one. Otherwise, I fear this guy is really gonna screw the party up for some time to come - and the damage could well be permanent.

If you recall in 2000, over half of the individuals who voted in this country did not choose Bush. I can't see this term gaining him more support, so if the half that already hated him, and the people who have come to hate him over the past four years can just show up...we've got it won. Watch farenheit 911 on mute. Just look at the people protesting at his INAUGURATION!!!!!! (sp?) This man was never supposed to lead us.

So is this the kerry hater thread or the Bush hater thread?

Besides most of that list is a distortion of the truth.........Hate really colors a persons view of the world.

What are your original thoughts...if you have any?

By voting for Kerry but betting on Bush (or vice versa) in the futures markets, all of us can be guaranteed a happy outcome on election day. Either our guy wins or we win some money.

http://tradesports.com/jsp/intrade/trading/t_amd.jsp?selConID=11738&z=22/09/2004-18:43:18#
http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph_Pres04_WTA.cfm

That's what I call a hedge!

It's pretty funny but they played a ross perot -clinton -bush senior clip from the debates about how bush senior sent the dollar to hell in a hand basket.

Bush has F-ed up the country in so many ways that no one even notices the dollar has lost HALF its value to the Euro since he became pres..

hedge by shorting the dollar -- bush is trashing it with deficits...and war

The Fed correction's right around the corner, too.

1979-1982, part II. Glad my mortgage is a fixed rate.

Shorting the dollar is a good bet, since Bush will keep it on the down-cycle and Kerry wouldn't do any better!

Talk of shorting the dollar on an esoteric political website after a huge multiyear decline--I think I'll be buying your shorts. See you on the playground.

BTW- in 1979 inflation had well-reached the double-digit range and the unemployment something like 8-9%. Now, if you want to say that we are in danger of repeating the horrible economic mistakes of say, 1974-77, then we could talk...

Classic flip-flopping from a Kerry fan. What a turd!

Hey, cmon - he's a flip flopper - give him a break. After all, it takes one to know one.

My vote for Kerry is really a vote to delay the American Apocalypse by 10 or 20 years.

The post above me with the list does a good job pointing out why we can't actually support Bush.

But Kerry???? Will he remove the money / corporate influence from Washington? NO. Will he be able to fix Iraq? NO (nor could anyone, IMHO) Will he undo the gerrymandering in the House? NO. Will he figure out how to unburden us from the massive debt we've cast upon the international market? Well, it will be better than the alternative, so, well, I HOPE SO.

But then there's optimisim -- public lands, welfare, health care, respect for the troops, less dogmatic advisors, or at least those with a more palateable dogma, international respect and political adeptness should all be improved.

But a blue-blood patrician? Oy vey.

Patrician? Blue Bood? Nawhhw. Not really. But he did marry wel and does not pretend that he is a construction laborer.

Everything else aobut your post is absolutely right on.

Bush started the downfall for this country. Kerry will not stop it, but maybe slow it. he is part of dysfunction. Aren't they all?

"But he did marry wel and does not pretend that he is a construction laborer." Umm... he also went to Yale and got A's while Bush went to Yale and got C's.

You know we're in trouble when liberals like me, who agree with all of Kerry's positions, feel embarassed to tell people that we are voting for him, because he is so unlikeable. If I had my druthers, I'd rather have a charming candidate that I disagreed with on a few things. That person would stand a better chance of getting elected than Kerry does, and we would be spared 4 more years of Bush. I would be willing to tolerate a little disagreement to get Bush out of the White House.

agree with all of Kerry's positions ?! could you please tell me what they are? ... okay ... how about just a few of them? ... anyone? ... anyone???

I like Kerry. He's genuine, wicked smart, experienced, and has a great reputation for integrity. It's kind of old-fashioned these days, but makes for a tremendous contrast to Bush.
And in person, Kerry IS totally charming and very warm! He's the nicest, most unassuming, yet most powerful politician I've ever met and I've been in govt. since 1997.

Please Mister Lockhart. Astroturfing is not going to work here.

"And in person, Kerry IS totally charming and very warm! He's the nicest, most unassuming, yet most powerful politician I've ever met and I've been in govt. since 1997."

OH YEAH, WELL I WAS STANDING 20 FEET FROM HIM AT THE WALL ON MEMORIAL DAY PAYING MY RESPECTS WHILE HE WAS GETTING A PHOTO OP - ONCE THE VETS REALIZED HE WAS THERE AND SAID A FEW CHOICE WORDS TO HIM ABOUT HIS PAST HE FLIPPED 2 OF THEM THE BIRD - HONEST TO GOD - KERRY FLIPPED NOT 1 BUT 2 VIET NAM VETS THE BIRD ON MEMORIAL DAY 2004 AT THE VIET NAM MEMORIAL - I SAW IT.

So excuse me if I barf while you spew your bs about how "warm" and "charming" he is. He's an ass and a phony. And he's not "unassuming" either - he assumes we're all idiots and will by into his facade. HANOI JOHN IS NEITHER "WARM", "CHARMING"AND MORE IMPORTANTLY -
HE IS NOT PRESIDENTIAL!

You didn't see it, you read about it. It's obvious, everyone knows. This kind of shit gets ignored, but peolpe should point out obvious bullshit more often, to discourage it. Bush and Cheney would be getting constant interuptions from those around them if people did this.

If only the rest of the American population was as nice as you:) I like him as well, (so I don't know what I'm doing here) I was just curious a of peoples opinions and I found that any people here are cynical and rude... at least there is one postive American, that survived the Bush administration.

In Govt since 97?? GREAT another HACK heard from.....An Anonymous one at that!

Oh boy, I can't wait for the debates tonight. Bush will mangle the English language and assert that 2+2=5, and the American public will agree with him because Senator Treebeard will answer with his grand, stentorian rhetoric, signifying nothing (out, out, damn stiff!). But on the bright side, I hear Canada's climate is almost as good as mine where I live!

We could have had Ho Dean - an articulate, straight talking, sticks to his guns anti-politician, but instead we took the guy who looked Presidential. Man, am I proud to be a progressive, liberal Democrat these days!

He self-destructed. That weird screech did more than anything to convince almost everyone they were looking at a Democratic version of Freaky Friday, wherein Howard and Lenny Bruce battled for control of his body.

Let's be honest with ourselves: ten people, and all of them except perhaps Edwards and Clark lacked the spark.

No, Dean definitely had the spark - I saw him in person about 10 times. What did him in was 1) him - insufficient verbal discipline, 2) his campaign - amateurish beyond words in Iowa, too far ahead on ad buys, and 3) the most coordinated drive-by shooting in the media since...forever, run by Kerry and Gephardt people plus our friends at the DLC and DNC who right now are pleading for money (HAH!). The latter was what really did it - all candidates and campaigns make stupid mistakes. It was the let's-head-to-the-center DC Dems who did dis. Charisma? Dean has more in his little pinky. Clark? An endearing, bright man willing to be manipulated by Clinton/Gore operatives who weren't in anyone else's camp. Edwards? Our next Vice President - in the Obama Administration, that is.

I went to a small, early Dean fundraiser in Philadelphia, and even in person he seemed a bit robotic to me, like he felt he had to stay on message and was trying too hard to do it.

Also, remember what happened as soon as he was the front runner? He turned very cautious and stopped staking out bold, thought-provoking positions.

His affect is off. He makes me think he is on strong anti-deps or something-- if he had a straightforward reaction I'm afraid it might involve screaming and automatic weapons...

With John Dean we would have at least gone down screaming. With Kerry, just silent ignomy.

...you mean Howard, right? I don't think John Dean would be a very attractive Democratic candidate....

Is THAT why I couldn't find him on my primary ballot.

"With John Dean we would have at least gone down screaming. With Kerry, just silent ignomy."

Ha ha! That's a good one.

Big Ups to the DNC and our wonderful presidential primary system

I can't belive this guy is, by most accounts, 8 points down in the polls...behind someone who looks like a chimp, acts like a chimp, drinks lie a sailor, lies like a rug, picks Dr. Evil for his VP and gets away with all of it. I could put my dog on the ballot and she should beat this President. What the hell is wrong with JK? And why are the American people SOOOO STUPID?

Why does this party keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again? Look at the last few Presidential Nominees:

Mondale
Dukakis
Clinton
Gore
Kerry

With the exception of Clinton, what do all of these people have in common?

Know-it-all personality
Zero Charisma
Patronizing speaking styles
Will not commit to simple soundbites

No one wants a 15 point plan on Iraq or Terrorism or Taxes. All 95% of the people want is a philosophy that can be explained in 5 seconds or less -- I don't know, something like "The economy, stupid."

Any one but Hillary in '08!!!!

www.obamadean2012.com

'cuz by then Howard will be a Senator, too.

"Will not commit to simple soundbites" - You got that right. Did you hear the Harry Shearer piece on NPR a week or two ago? High tech coaching of JK - every time he used more than five words - ZZZap - elctroshock therapy. If only.

We are the stupid ones my friend - by picking a candidate who has a ton of baggage, skeletons in the closet, a do nothing senator who in 20 years of government service has never cosponsored a single successful piece of legislation or bill - A long term senator who is viewed with junior status by his peers in the senate. Someone known as the opposite of a deal maker in a time when we are a minority party and need to make deals to get stuff done.

We are the stupid ones that had 9 candidates to choose from and we pick the one who is the most controversial and despised - both on his record in the senate and his past. The republicans are having a field day with his senatorial record and the veterans are crawling out of the woodwork in opposition to him as a result of his controversial military career.

Yeah, Bush looks like a chimp but so what? Kerry looks like lurch - we didn't win the beauty contest either! And if they give points for the beauty of their wives - then we lost the swimsuit portion of this competition hands down.

Over half the country is registered democrat and we are down in the polls and probably going to lose the election when we should have been kicking their ass by double digits with any candidate worth their salt. We are the stupid ones - not the Republicans. Oh sure, we can all whine like little babies and say they stole the election like we did last time but the truth is we are our own worst enemy in this election and the last one - we lost because the party is run by a bunch of idiots. The same idiots that brought us this lackluster candidate that I am now expected to vote for.

Anonymous-
He is not in the lead because he is a LOUSY CANDIDATE. He has no moral center (partial birth abortions??) and is on both sides of EVERY issue. He talks DOWN to the american people. A decent democrat would be up by 15 points....You nominated a jerk...He may win beause he isnt Bush, but thats the only reason...Did you stop to think you snob, that the american people are NOT stupid....but RIGHT

A friend of mine sent me this site, and I'm SOOOOO glad she did. I was considering voting for Nader b/c I live in Texas so a vote for Nader would be just as pointless as a vote for Kerry, especially in light of last year's unecessary redistricting. I am COMPLETELY and thoroughly unhappy with Bush, ever since the last election. He has completely abused his power and has scared the American public into believing that we actually NEED him. I'm glad to finally find like minded people with whom I identify. Bush makes me feel embarassed to be an American, even though I still believe that this is the best damn country on Earth. I agree that Kerry NEVER should have voted for the war in Iraq, none of them should have voted to give Bush such a free reign of power. What did Congress really expect? I knew he'd "f**k it up that bad", it was never any surprise to me. I was GLUED to CSPAN when they were debating whether or not to go to war, and was quite frankly appalled by all of the supporters. I sincerely hope that Kerry wins the election only because he seems to be the lesser of two evils. But, Kerry seems too ineffective and frankly quite boring. I loved Dean, he was so impassioned and has one heck of a record and I think could really have done some real good...but again, I was outvoted. Truthfully, I understand very little of what Kerry's even all about. I know the basics of the democratic platform, and since we picked Kerry...well, then I guess he's my guy. But would I would love is to see a revolution in our politics. A reclamation of our rights and freedoms. People don't think they can make a difference, but if we all spoke out about anything and everything then maybe we would be heard and learn to speak with ONE, empowered voice.

Thank you KH4K! You summed up all of my tortured feelings about this election and made me laugh at the same time.

I think your site will help Kerry. Many of the people who don't like him aren't going to vote, unless someone makes them laugh at their anguish.

If this guy manages to win, he will have you to thank.

Howard Dean, June, 2003:

"So, Senator, you voted to authorize Bush to go to war, you voted for his tax cuts, you voted for No Child Left Behind and you voted for the Patriot Act. In 50 words or less, what exactly do you have such a freakin' problem with, dude?"

GWB, Tonight:

"So, Senator, you voted to authorize me to go to war, you voted for my tax cuts, you voted for No Child Left Behind and you voted for the Patriot Act. In 50 words or less, what exactly do you have such a freakin' problem with, dude?"

I said it in March when it was unfortunately inevitable that the Dems (DNC) had forced JK on us and removed the only man with a plan (Howard Dean): Rove is going to have a field day with flip-flop Kerry. And that's exactly what is happening. The Deaniacs saw that one a mile away.

If the Deaniacs could see the problems with Kerry from a mile away, then why couldn't they see that their candidate was a raving moron? Thanks for nothing, Deaniacs.

Dean=God. He would be 10-15 points ahead BEFORE the debates. Bush probably wouldnt vote for bush after them. I may not vote kerry so the ship can sail in 2008.

Kucinich was also a man with a plan. a plan on his website no less. and he was also a raving moron.

Why do you call Kucinich a raving moron? He's one of the only American politicians I've ever seen that has a lick of sense.
Three words:
Dept. of Peace.

You want to stop terror? How about you stop terrorizing the rest of the world with your massive arms build-up, your 10,000 ICBMs pointed at our cities, your troops stationed in 100 countries (to "keep the peace"), and your 400 billion dollar war budget.

Yes, I'm a Canadian & I don't believe in war. Look at the EU. How many places have they invaded recently? You're making China look like a boy scout.

Stop building your empire and maybe the barbarians will stop clanging at the gates.

Ie. Kucinich was your last, best hope. Kerry may just continue the 50 year legacy of propping up your military-industrial complex.

Ahh, the safe confines of the panic room!

Would the Dept. of Peace have a Bureau of Harmony and Understanding, Office of Sympathy and Trust Abounding?

The only reason why I wouldnt mind seeing Bushy win would be so Hillary would have a shot at it in '08. But i'll still vote for JK.

Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! I'm freaking out- hyperventilating...must breathe slower....slower.

It's hard to even listen to Kerry speak. Had he run his campaign with no public appearances and no Q & A sessions, he'd be better off than he is now.

It looks like it's over now. At least a vote for Nadar will tell the DNC not to nominate another Kerry.

If Kerry shows that voting for Nader convinced the DNC not to nominate another Gore.

On abc Kerry blundered when asked whether going into Iraq was worth it.... his answer? 'It all depends.'
Kerry has the leadership qualities of a goatherder! He would be lucky to make an Admin Asst. position at a mid sized company.
What an empty suit!

You have insulted goat herders and administrative assistants.

This is directed to certain morons here:

Kerry is the Democratic nominee fair and square, even that quack Dean admitted that Kerry beat his scrawny ass to a pulp in 49/50 states. Back off from the Kool-aid already, you poor lemmings! Dean went off the cliff.

It makes me sick that some of you consider yourself "liberals" and you don't do squat to help the cause here. You're lazy asses and have absolutely no right to ever criticize Kerry. You don't even know his lifetime record. He left Dean, Clark and the rest in the dust and then earned their sincere endorsements. In fact, he's earned just about every endorsement worth having. You think you could do better (from your armchair)---HAHAHAHAHAH

I really despise this web site because Kerry has put his life at risk for our country and even NOW is probably enduring ongoing death threats (not from the far left), but from far right wackos, gun freaks, and crazies. Kerry has to have the Secret Service follow his every move since Bush/Rove, Inc. wouldn't mind taking him out and obviously think life is cheap... Kerry also was at the top of Nixon's enemies list. (a compliment!) This man once again deserves immense RESPECT for his courage, fortitude, and daring to take on a totally corrupt, evil administration.

I didn't see the point in insulting dean and clark, but you made a good point even if in a way that was a bit crude. This site is doing no justice to our cause.

Maybe that's because Karl Rove is running the site.
.
.
.
Hey, that's a JOKE, folks. Rove runs bushhatersforbush.com.

"I didn't see the point in insulting dean and clark, but you made a good point even if in a way that was a bit crude. This site is doing no justice to our cause. "

Of course there was no point to it but who can resist making fun of them - especially that little angry troll Howard Dean!

"This site is doing no justice to our cause."

Oh, like picking Hanoi John Kerry as a presidential candidate was doing anything for our cause to begin with lol. That's why this site exists you dope. Just be glad and thankful that they created this ridiculous niche constituency for this ridiculous candidate - he's going to need all the help he can get!

next time, show a sign of emtotional intelligence in your posts if that's possible

the unkindest cut of all....The campaign reflects the candidate...

Marrying rich once? Fate.

Twice? Calculated, self agrandizing, self centered, smarmy, arrogant, grandstanding, limelight hogging, balloon headed sob... What the hell happened to Clark! His head isn't one tenth the size of Kerry's!

Yep, Kerry is a serial fortune hunter. That says a lot about character. Even if he traded up, net worth-wise, with Teresa.

With Wes Clark, from what I've heard on a military list, there would have been a lot of Army officers swiftboating him. Unlike the very impressive Tommy Franks, Wes was not a soldier's soldier and in fact reminds me of Al Haig, since we're talking about 4-star generals. (Yeah, yeah, I know Franks is backing Bush. Damn, I would give ANYTHING if he were a Democrat.)

Evan Bayh 2008, anyone? I mean, I'm feeling desperate. Not desperate enough for Hillary, though, thank you very much.

That is such a stupid comment. When people have a lot of money, their friends also have a lot of money. So naturally Kerry would find another wife with a lot of money from within that crowd. I like Teresa. A lot. She's a ballsy woman who isn't afraid to speak up, unlike Stepford Wife Bush.

What the hell happened to any choice. All these Democrats in the US and those 9 were the best they could offer. Holy crap!!!

Kerry at least won the debate handily..

unfortunately, most people probably didn't watch the split screen on CSPAN where Bush looked awful when he was off the network cameras...

I watched the debate on NBC and they used the split screen feed a few times. Bush looked angry, except when he looked stupid. His statements (they sure weren't answers) were basically repetitive, simplistic, fumbling and rambling. I'm not a Kerry fan, but I'm embarrassed to have GWB as president. Why W has such support is beyond me, but it suggests truth in the old axiom tnat no one ever lost an election underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

We'll have to see what he does with the momentum he's generated. This was about the best that Kerry could hope for short of W going off on a racist monologue. I'm actually feeling a bit better about Kerry and perhaps not all is lost....

ummm... he says we need to send MORE TROOPS TO IRAQ!!! this is such a fucking shitty plan!!!

Elect Kerry,and win back some of those lost friends around the world,notably in the U.K.

Saw the man in action last night. Smooth, not smug, smart, especially when compared to that chimp he was debating. Made me hate him a little less.

You know what the worst part is? I look at Mr Kerry's policies and I get absolutely no desire for him to win. Then I look at the cheerleader / cowboy / war president / peace president / idiot / murdering bastard and I start to think that Kerry is not so bad. cheerleader / cowboy / war president / peace president / idiot / murdering bastard is dragging me to the centre ground of politics. Ladies and gentlemen George Bush makes me hate myself. He truly does work for the scum that is pharmaceutical companies.

Kerry did way better than everyone thought he would last night... but I miss Dean. Dean would be leading in the polls big time by now, methinks. He had no conflicts of interest with the war in Iraq... he hated it from the start. And he has a normal, non-fun-house-mirror face.

Kerry looked a little more human and likable last night, I actually didn't hate him much at all during the debate. Bush looked tired and frustrated but I didn't even hate Bush much either.

Why did Kerry have to say that US plans must pass the "global test" before doing anything? Now I hate him again. I hate Bush again too.

So I must choose between a cultured, articulate, internationalist elite Yankee millionaire who wants to ask the UN if we can take a leak, or a crusading cowboy with a three-word vocabulary who is determined to fix the world with a Bible in one hand and a sledgehammer in the other.

It's so hard to get good help nowadays.

To be respectfully frank, that's because you did not understand what he meant by "global test." There are rules and regulations all countries have to follow, not only America. This is to ensure that everyone acts responsibly when pursuing their political agendas abroad. President Bush Senior did that when he was pursuing the first Iraq war. He did that by having a stronger rationale for the war, respecting international law by first making a convincing case to the U.N. and gaining their approval, and building a strong U.N. coalition to assist with military operations. Bush Junior also did the same when pursuing Bin Laden in Afghanistan. The U.N. supported it because America had a good case. This is an example of going through the global test. As long as a president really does have a case for going to war and follows legal proceedings that are universal, there's no reason for international alliances to hold us back. Bush Junior never had a case. His premises for starting this war were from the beginning false. And if there false, Iraq is not a threat to our national security, and there is therefore no need for the other countries to support such serious military action. If you violate another country's sovereignty without strong reasons for it, you are demonstrating a disregard for international law and that sets the wrong example for the rest of the world. Suddenly, institutions like U.N. loses some of its relevance and the implications of that are worrisome.

I regret to inform you ... you are too far from reality. There are no "rules and regulations all countries have to follow, not only America." Countries act independently. They are sovereign states. Sometimes they make agreements to align with others when it is in their best interest. Such agreements are worth the paper they are written on. There is no higher authority to appeal to when a country breaks the "rules." I stress the word authority. There is no world authority. No world government. Look at it this way, all countries essentially act unilaterally. They may do so in concert with others but only when it is to their advantage.

Yes there are rules and regulations that govern the world. The U.N. charter is in place for that to ensure that countries behave responsibly while pursuing their agendas and that consideration for violence is carried out as a last resort to preserve integrity and security internationally. There are conditions that must be met for a preemptive strike against another country according to the U.N. charter.

It is true that some countries violate international law and procedures when they feel it is in their interests and choose to move unilaterally, but don't tell me it is far from reality because the legal procedure and laws does exist for the world, but whether countries choose to abide by them is another story. And yes, John kerry did vote against the first Iraq war. But John Kerry never started either of these wars. For sure, George Bush Jr. acted irresponsibly when he chose to ignore the facts and distort the truth about the situation over in Iraq, and by Ignoring the U.N. charter. How is it that America can impose the U.N. charter and procedure on other countries and choose to use it as an excuse for war, but at the same time can violate those same conditions when they feel its in their interest? How hypocritical. The Iraq war was unnecessary and unethical, and our country should show more consideration for international opinion and international law. Our abilitiy to keep America safe from terrorism would be far better our relationship with the world was far better. So, I do not believe I am out of touch with reality. I believe that anyone who thinks noncooperation with countries who really want to help and committing unprovoked violence based on lies and distortions fabricated by a stubborn and isolationist president can actually protect america is actually out of touch with reality.

"I regret to inform you ... you are too far from reality. There are no "rules and regulations all countries have to follow, not only America." Countries act independently."

Yes there are institutions like the United Nations, the geneva convention, and amnesty international to protect the rights of countries and people in general. They're there to monitor the conduct of foreign affairs. Thank you for pointing out that countries act independently, but I'm referring to international affairs, not domestic affairs. Countries cannot just do whatever they want world-wide. That is why under the U.N. charter there is something called "The Right For Pre-emptive Action" which states when countries have the right to preemptively strike other countries. Such legal conditions exist to preserve the security and protect sovereignty of all actions and to avoid reckless action. But you're right. Countries look after their own interests. That's why the United States violated that U.N. charter and decided to illegaly invade Iraq without U.N. support. But don't tell me they don't exist or may be compelled to say you've lost touch with reality to some extent, or just didn't know about them.

Yes indeed, we really passed the global test in 1991, with even Arab countries joining the coalition.

But guess who voted against Desert Storm? John Forbes Kerry. He was one of just a handful who voted that way. I guess the global test wasn't strict enough for him.

I cringe at the thought of when the Republican attack machine will start hammering on this.

Yes, John Kerry voted against Desert Storm. That's not a reason not to elect him. It doesn't really mean anything. He tells me he opposed that war while he voted for the second one. It's a puzzling record, but it does not ultimately disqualify him from being a capable leader. Lying about our reasons for going to war seems a lot more significant than voting differently on two separate wars.

I don't know that Dean would have been leading "big time" by now, though at least they couldn't call him a flip-flopper. Dean's albatross--and I was a big supporter, just for his honesty--was his lack of discipline and saying he would repeal all the Bush tax cuts, including the middle class ones. He should have lied about that. Yes, Kerry has mucked this up incredibly, though as Iraq is going south again, he may yet have a chance. And...we tend to forget just how GOOD Rove and Co. are at (a) staying on message and (b) making the opposition appear to be liberal child-molesting transvestite-luvin' traitors.

JK done good last night. I withdraw my "Kerry...Because the Alternative Is Worse" bumper sticker.

Ha... and It only gets better! The second and third debates, Kerry wins as well:)

ALL OF YOU ARE A BUNCH OF IGNORANT TERRORIST SUPPORTERS.

I sure hope that person was kidding, because if not that is one of the most ignorant right wing fearmongering things I have ever read and I live in Utah so that is quite a feat.

They are becoming a little scared of what they are seeing....Bunnypants COULD be defeated. If everyone would go and register to vote! http://www.declareyourself.com/ PASS IT ON! Monday is the last day to register!!!

"ALL OF YOU ARE A BUNCH OF IGNORANT TERRORIST SUPPORTERS."

Thanks for your constructive remarks.

Just four little words: Michael Moore for President.
Now will you vote for John Kerry?

Four more little words: Geoge Soros, Vice President.
You're weakening...starting to think JFK....

The next few should wake you up!
Wesley Clark, Secretary of Defense
Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Health & Human Services
Howard Dean, FDA head.
Al Sharpton, Homeland Defense
Diane Finestein, Sec of Education

Ok, give up now? Voting for Kerry/Edwards should come far easier after that set of scenarios..

Kerry SUCKS... he has zero stand on anything. He has done NOTHING as the senator of massachusetts. And, the only thing he portrays himself as is the anti-bush...which is ridiculous! Come back and run for president once you Get an Opinion! Vote for Bush!!!

Kerry has all the positions, Bush only has the wrong ones. Good point

Well...I'm a Black Man from the South Side of Chicago...

I wouldn't trust Bush further than I can throw him...

I don't trust Kerry either....but at least I can kick his ass.

Well at least JK doesn't stick by his WRONG decisions over and over again. At least he evaluates his actions and is not stubborn enough to kill young Americans on a daily basis because he can't admit he was wrong and we need help. Fuck you for posting your narrow minded opinion.

Brilliant. You want to vote for a guy who will spend your money, get halfway to the goal, then back off and waste the money spent so far? Grow up. Kerry not only backs off and re-thinks his opinion, he asks his backers (big business like his WIFE, not his constituents) what he should do now. Then he proceeds through innumerable 180s until we're all too dizzy to notice. Ugh. Talk about a lame choice for president.

Americans deserve what they get if they believe that George Bush wants what is best for America. Who has the man actually made America a better place for??
signed... "feel sorry for America under Bush"

Kerry and his wife are meant for each other....both golddiggers (Kerry TWICE...don't know about her)...dancing on the grave of Heinz, using HIS money to fund Kerry's ambitions...she even spends Heinz' millions to fund radical liberal causes...I ask you, if you were a conservative and married a wealthy spouse who was a liberal lefty who gets knocked off in an accident, out of respect for the dead, wouldn't you at least give to non-partisan causes? I'll bet Heinz is spinning like a turbine...The Kerrys are a coupla' disgusting parvenu brats.....

Ain't a person on this damn board that wouldn't marry a hotass (used to be) ultra rich girl if they had the chance.

No, I'm pretty sure there are some who would prefer an ultra-rich *man*.

I'm for that opinion.

I'm for that opinion.

I'm for that opinion.

I'm for that opinion.

I'm for that opinion.

Wow, some of you actually think through what you have to say about politics. I'll vote for Badernick or whatever that LIbertarian guy is cause he seems to want to get rid of the entire government. Anarchy for everyone!!!

which is worse...four years of "deer in the headlights" or four years of Herman Munster? can't take either of them...

Here's something everyone needs to think about... if Kerry and Edwards are elected, and Kerry dies, Edwards is going to become President. After watching his slimy, ambulance chasing lawyer smirking grin on the debate tonight, I fear for this country if that dispicable duo is elected.

Isn't this a sight FOR Kerry? I'm sorry but I felt Edwards did an excellent job. He said all of the things Kerry should have in the last debate. I feel that both men running for vice-president are a lot more competent than their counterparts.

true dat --

it's so pathetic that Kerry and Edwards are the best the dems could come up with - hell, I'd vote for a cheese sandwich if I thought it had a chance against Bush...

I'm sorry for YOU if you thought Edwards "did an excellent job" in the debate. He's a self-serving, self-righteous puppet for "John Kerry" (man, if he could have said Senator Kerry or Mr. Kerry or ANYTHING other than "John Kerry" over and over... he reminded me of when Bob Dole kept talking about himself in 3rd person). He's a broken record! He made me sick when he couldn't say one thing to defend his lack of experience. He sounded even worse when he couldn't say anything about his own opinions, just those of Kerry.

I think these two will campaign on anything to win, and then just do absolutely the opposite if they get elected.

Re the whole lawyer thing, I think Edwards left a line unsaid last night:

"Well, Mr. Vice President, between the needless destruction you and George Bush have caused, both to our economy and in Iraq, and the greed that the company you yourself ran has shown in the Iraq so-called 'clean-up' operation, it's clear that the country NEEDS someone like me to protect them from people like you."

Democrats protect, Republicans attack.
Democrats include, Republicans exclude.
Democrats choose, Republicans deny.
Democrats think, Republicans excrete

The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war. I told my son to go stand in our front living room window. I told him: "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"
"I see trees and cars and our neighbors� houses." he replied.
"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush."
Our son giggled and said "OK."
"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country"
"OK Dad, I'm pretending."
"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and see that man come out of his house with his wife and he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and afraid of their father. You see all of this son.... what do you do?"
"I call the police."
"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations and they take your call, listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you do then son?"
"But the police are supposed to help!"
"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it,"
"But ...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.
"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."
"He killed them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"
"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him."
"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him."
"But, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"
"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"
"What ?"
"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"
Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, "I close the blinds, Daddy."
"Why?"
"Because ....the police are supposed to help...people who needs it....and they won't help....You always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help me stop him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself .Daddy.....I can't look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things and...and.....do nothing...so....I'm just going to close the blinds....so I can't see what he's doing........and I'm going to pretend that it is not happening."
Son"
"Yes, Daddy."
"Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door..."WHAT DO YOU DO?"
My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!"
a tear roll down my cheek and I grabs my son and hugs him tight, and cries..."It's too late to fight him, he's too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife. You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before......it's too late."
THAT scenario I just gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let evil happen is the greatest EVIL of all. Our President is doing what is right. We, as a free nation, must understand that this war is a war of humanity. WE must remove evil men from power so that we can continue to live in a free world where we are not afraid to look out our window. So that my nine year old son won't grow up in a world where he feels that if he just "closes" that blinds the atrocities in the world won't affect him.
"YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR PRESIDENT! BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA!! SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS...."

What a load of crap...Don't exploit your child with some fictional story to further your views. Who gave saddam all of his weapons? Who kept him in power for decades becuase it served THEIR interests? When good men stand by and let evil happen, like an invasion of a minor threat for ECONOMIC reasons instead of MORAL or RATIONAL ones; you're right it is the greater evil. Thats why it is imperative to get Bush out of the white house and why people are doing something about it. What about the "blinds" that we are using to ignore more dire threats and atrocities in the world? I hope your kid moves out of the suburbs, sells his SUV, and thinks for himself for the whole world's sake.

In line with your reasoning, exactly why, then does the US fail to act, even unilaterally to halt the state-sponsored mass murder and expulsion of people in the Dafuor region of Sudan?

The US closes the blinds all the time on plights of people all over the world...explain to your child that we are at war for economic reasons. Not moral reasons as you imply.

Exactly. That load of tripe was the kind of syrupy bullshit that this administration feeds us all the time (that latest "wolves" commercial, for instance).

Suddenly:
"Sorry son we attacked the wrong neighbor!"
"Oh no, we did?"
"Yep, now we are at war with the wrong country, and we went to war without a correct reson."
He looks at the mother with terror.
"But mommy, YOU told me that the neighbor was evil and to protect my family!"
"Nope son... Nothing is my fault! It must have to do with the people I appointed!"
"But..."
"Sorry son, but all the money you spent on 'protecting' your family is coming out of your allowance!"
"WAAAAA!"
"Sorry that YOU started it."
"But you told me to open the blinds..."
"Well son that is not my fault."

Goddamn you Karl Rove for removing McCain from the running in 2000 you bastard!

http://fuckkarlrove.com

Dalai Lama for president!

We need Bush out! The world thinks, 'Okay, he cheated to get in the first time now they'll vote 'im out' If we don't the world will be even madder at us than ever. Think about this. Please vote Kerry. ANYONE BUT BUSH!

OH NO! The world is MAD at us!

The sky is falling!

Go back to France you quivering pile of dung. I don't intend to let other nations with agendas that undermine this country's national security influence my vote.

No one on the planet has the capability to attack the United States. No other country has missiles with the reach, a strong enough naval, or air force, or even the desire to attack us. The only possible threats are Canada and Mexico and I think you see how likely that is. The entire purpose of spending 400 billion (half of the fuckin budget) on so called "national defense" is to make campaign contributing defense contract companies DISGUSTINGLY RICH at the expense of world safety. These companies are making all of the weapons that everyone uses to kill people. just STOP.

(ok maybe im using a bit of hyperbole, especially in saying that there are no military threats to the US left, but really...none of them are serious, and our military as it is can handle anything. There is NO NEED to escalate military spending once this iraq shit is finished.)

The best reason I can think of for voting against Kerry is so Hillary can run in 2008... where are those Nader pamphlets?

this website is counterproductive. the bushcountry.org members are laughing at you right now as we speak. you've become one of the topics of their discussion forum, the brunt of their joke. It's indirectly reinforcing their message and indirectly helping their argument There's always something we can find to dislike someone regardless of whether he's our leader, a manager, or my best friend. Of course I haven't always agreed with Kerry's actions, but I have never found myself in perfect consensus with any president in my lifetime or presidential candidate for that matter. If we do not want Bush to be president, let's use our time to try and help remove that man instead. You can work as a volunteer for Kerry's campaign writing letters to the media through the internet if you go to www.johnkerry.com .In between posting insults on this web site, let's take a trip over there and write a letter to your local newspaper criticizing bush.

Look at it this way: Another four years of Bush BS will mean at least 12 years of Democratic administrations. Look at it as an investment for Hillary or whomever.

And there's at least a chance of retaking the Senate. Maybe we should concentrate some effort there.

this website is counterproductive. the bushcountry.org members are laughing at you right now as we speak. you've become one of the topics of their discussion forum, the brunt of their joke. It's indirectly reinforcing their message and indirectly helping their argument There's always something we can find to dislike someone regardless of whether he's our leader, a manager, or my best friend. Of course I haven't always agreed with Kerry's actions, but I have never found myself in perfect consensus with any president in my lifetime or presidential candidate for that matter. If we do not want Bush to be president, let's use our time to try and help remove that man instead. You can work as a volunteer for Kerry's campaign writing letters to the media through the internet if you go to www.johnkerry.com .In between posting insults on this web site, let's take a trip over there and write a letter to your local newspaper criticizing bush.

After 4 years of "Bush = Hitler" and then Michael Moore, I'd sooner chew glass than vote for Kerry. If Kerry wins, you'll get it all back in spades.

I clearly understand your position and respect it. Your mind is made up. So you can be rest assured that you are not one of those people I am trying to reach. I'm looking for the ones that do want to vote for kerry and stop bush.

<em><strong>The spiral of hate:</strong></em> Thinking about how much I hate Bush makes me hate Kerry even more. How dare this arrogant blowhard put his lame ass out there when better candidates were available?

"Thinking about how much I hate Bush makes me hate Kerry even more. How dare this arrogant blowhard put his lame ass out there when better candidates were available?"

How would you know if Kerry is such a lame person? Have you worked with him before? Whining and insults come cheap.

To borrow a line from Letterman:

"John Kerry says the 'W' in George W. Bush stands for 'Wrong.' But he still can't explain what John Kerry stands for."

I'm John Kerry and I approve this message (if I have one)

your remarks are very cute and funny. But being cute can never make up for a lack of intelligence. it only provides the misperception that there is some.

let's just hope the "F" doesn't stand for failure.

kerry, what a horrible candidate.

any decent democrat in the bill clinton / tony blair mold would be up fifteen points in the polls right now.
actually, they *wouldn't* be because the republicans would have panicked and nominated someone else. with kerry, they didn't even have to get old man cheney off the ticket, even though sources (such as sen. damato) said BOTH colin powell and john mccain were willing to be VP.

you can't even count kerry's primary win as something in his favor, dems panicked that deane would get crushed by bush, and he was the only viable alternative in a very weak field:

dean was doing so well that it started to look like a karl rove conspiracy to ensure an easy bush sin.
gephardt is a nice guy and trustworthy but boring as hell and too orange-pink.
lieberman is too conservative, jewish, and boring with nixon cheeks.
edwards is a trial lawyer who hasn't even served a full term in the senate, and wouldn't even have won re-election.
clark was kind of creepy and didn't turn out the be the savior the dems were looking for, possibly only put forward by the clintons because a bush victory would clear the way for hillary 08.
graham was so amazingly dull (diary entries about tying his shoes) and an old fogey that he couldn't make the ticket as VP even though he makes florida a lock.
kucinich, mosely-braun, and sharpton aren't even worth mentioning, except that sharpton was entertaining.


hey, let's go with kerry, he was in the military, plus he's tall and has presidential hair. he's such a boring public speaker that he'll never say anything too damaging for his own campaign because people tune out whenever he opens his mouth. plus the convention is in boston anyways, and his old lady is rich so maybe she'll spend a few million to help us out.


in hindsight, the dems needed an insanely strong foreign policy ticket, maybe joe biden and evan bayh.

bush is going to win. forget the national polls, look at the battlegrounds, such as ohio, florida, and missouri.

there's always 2008...

"kerry, what a horrible candidate. any decent democrat in the bill clinton / tony blair mold would be up fifteen points in the polls right now. " Why don't you help him out mr. campaign manager with all the experience. You can reach his staff through johnkerry.com Teach him a few tricks about campaigning "bush is going to win. forget the national polls, look at the battlegrounds, such as ohio, florida, and missouri. there's" which poll are you looking at? Every poll has its own story.

nobody can "teach" kerry how to be a good candidate. do you think anyone had to "teach" bill clinton and tony blair how to be good canidadates? what about reagan or roosevelt? you're a good candidate or you're not.

kerry is a guy whose time finally came to run for president, just like bob dole. hey, let's throw some boring senator whose been loyal for to us for many years out there. sure he'll get slaughtered, but we owe him that much at least...
he's NOT getting slaughtered, which only proves that a decent candidate could have been well ahead by now. people want change, they just need a halfway decent alternative and they'll dump bush.


as far as every poll having its own story, how about these:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2107683/
Bush 295, Kerry 243

http://www.electionprojection.com/
Bush 295, Kerry 243

http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Kerry 253 Bush 264

"as far as every poll having its own story, how about these:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2107683/
Bush 295, Kerry 243

http://www.electionprojection.com/
Bush 295, Kerry 243

http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Kerry 253 Bush 264"

So what? Is the election tonight or something?

umm...

http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Kerry-298
Bush-231
And no: the election is tommorow

its obvious to everyone that in many states its a tight race. are you a bush supporter in extreme desperation or something? you sure put a lot of effort into digging up those statistics for a measely post. i imagine you must have got a lot of satisfaction out of that.

my POINT was that a bill clinton / tony blair type candidate would be up 15 points by now as the public is just looking for a reason to vote for someone other than bush.

yes, you're right, the election isn't tomorrow, but kerry is stinking up the joint, SO FAR.

i am NOT a bush supporter, i'm a political science major.

whereas you might like posting silly messages with based on no factual data, i follow the electoral college projections on a weekly basis. i didn't have to "dig up" those websites because i have them all bookmarked. i take no joy out of the fact that they predict a fairly easy bush victory barring some major change.

i'm obviously not a kerry fan either. read my original post, i think the Dems needed a biden/bayh ticket to crush bush. i will vote for kerry. do i think kerry will win? no.
great job, democratic party, way to blow this one!

you're a polical science major? wow, you have a lot to be proud of.

Continue to keep an eye on those projections jimmy boy. your self-esteem is keeps growing by the hour and maybe you can actually prove something.

my point is that is why i am following the electoral vote projections.

what sense does it make to simply refuse to believe all evidence that kerry is being blown away when it comes to electoral votes. at least if some counter-evidence was presented, you wouldn't look like fools.

"my point is that is why i am following the electoral vote projections. what sense does it make to simply refuse to believe all evidence that kerry is being blown away when it comes to electoral votes. at least if some counter-evidence was presented, you wouldn't look like fools."

what's the matter with this guy? he keeps carrying on about the polls he dug up. there are polls that show bush winning in some areas, and there are polls that show kerry winning. they change day by day. what are you trying to prove?

you've really put a lot of effort into this one. don't forget to tell your department advisor. he may actually give you some college credit.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

Electoral College:
Bush 240 Kerry 169

The latest Rasmussen Reports Electoral College projection shows George W. Bush with 240 Electoral Votes and John Kerry with 169. There are now eleven states with 129 Electoral Votes in the Toss-Up category.

I don't believe ANY of these dumbass EV projections. It's way too soon to count electoral votes and gaining or losing a few states would change the whole damn thing. Concentrate on OH and WI and Kerry will skate in. Hell, I'd sharpen the damn skates for him.

you don't have to believe anything if you don't want to. you don't have to believe that the world is flat. hey, it's a free country.

"you don't have to believe anything if you don't want to. you don't have to believe that the world is flat. hey, it's a free country."

this is moronic nonsense. just another fool trying to be cute.

"It's way too soon to count electoral votes..."

Right, 'cause I'd be goin out on a long limb if I said Kerry is going to carry New York but lose in Texas.

""It's way too soon to count electoral votes..." Right, 'cause I'd be goin out on a long limb if I said Kerry is going to carry New York but lose in Texas."

Stop taking people's words out of context. You know what this person meant. The poster was not referring to Texas. It's obvious Bush has a strong lead in texas. That's not what the poster was referring to. It's about the swing states. Stop trying to be smart, and try arguing when actually have something significant to argue about. What a bunch of nonsense.

I support US action in Iraq. I thought then, and still think, that it was the right thing to do. I'm worried that John Kerry will seek to appease domestic anti-war sentiment by withdrawing troops, leaving a fledgling democracy to ex-Baathists and murderous islamists.

However, I can't vote for a president who will amend the constitution to deny equal constitutional rights to gay couples.

So I'll have to vote Kerry, even though I think he's an idiot.

I, too, can't vote for Bush for his grotesque stand on civil liberty issues. But neither can I vote for Kerry who will sell us out to the U.N. worse than Bush and it's-only-about-stockpiles-of-WMD-Powell. And how is Kerry going to argue against the anti-abortionists that *he attends mass with*?

I fear New Rome is falling.

Yeah, its tricky, innit!

I don't think he would sell out to the U.N. That wasn't the meaning of the "global test." He's talking about cooperation and respect for internation legal procedure and law. All countries are obligated to it. America is no exception. The implications of ignoring the legitimacy of the U.N. and other international forums I feel are serious.

Right on!

Ummm, the Constitution provides rights to individuals, there are no rights to "couples" (or threesomes, or any other collectives except the various state governments). Any gay person has the right that any non-gay person has as far as marriage is concerned: Any of us can marry any one adult person of the opposite sex. No one can marry more than one person at a time. None of us can marry a child. None of us can marry a person of the same sex. Thus we all have the same individual rights and prohibitions.

Wait a minute, If marrying your buddy is your right, then I should be about to marry a little girl (or my sister, or my mother, why not my bother), how can the government and that Nazi bush tell me that is wrong?

I will define marriage for myself. I don't need the government doing it. Of course that excludes children unless you want to be ridiculous. But as far as I'm concerned, same-sex marriage of course among adults is fair game. If that makes me, then I'm liberal. Marriage being only between a man and a woman is a christian definition and I do not feel obligated to follow it. As an individual, I will choose to marry on my own terms.

Bush in 2004!!!

Who is kicking ass in the WoT?
Bush

Who is turning the economy around?
Bush

Who will better protect America?
Bush

Who will pick a stance on an issue that is in the best interests of the U.S. and not the U.N. (and stick with it)?
Bush

Who will raise taxes, weaken the military, kow-tow to others nations in matters of our national interest?
Kerry

Its an easy choice for me.

"Who is kicking ass in the WoT?
Bush "

Who's kicking their teeth in because they can't find those wmds?

Bush

One of my daughters told me she saw a bumper sticker that read "BUSH IN 04, 4 MORE WARS". Well if it takes 4 more wars, to make it safe enough for my children to be able to go to work, a big sporting event, or even the mall, without the fear of being blown up, then so be it. I would fight in as many as it takes to protect the American way of life. That way of life includes stopping a dictator who has massacred his own people, and who has helped the very people who want to destroy our way of life. I had returned from a 6-month tour in Iraq, when I pick up the CTC Chronicle, and read were some misinformed person was bashing President Bush, and the war in Iraq. All the statistics in the article were the same negative rubbish we get from the liberal news media. How much would you pay to make the world safe for our children, or how much is an Iraqi life worth? I have been there and have seen the good we are doing there, and yes, there is a price to pay, but America has all ways been willing to pay that price. If you don't believe me, just go to France and ask an older person about World War 2. Thank God we have a President with some backbone, thank God for the US of A, and thank God for the men and women of the US armed services. From http://all4him.zapto.org

Hulloo, the US has helped the very people who want to destroy our way of life, including arming Saddam Hussein. And what does France and WWII have to do with this?

Enough with the paranoia and pointless fear. Nobody wants to kill you. Stop watching television and stop following old fashion american cliches.

God this one's really funny. Straight from the GWB Fantasy World.

I guess I shall have to vote for that Kerry, since my favorite person for the job, Jacques Chirac, can't be le President. Stopid americans are so raceist not letting non-americans vote or be le president!

Madame Teresa Kerry is lovely; americans need more european types as public figures!

So I think that Kerry will be a tres bien stand-in for Chirac. Then the brutal american regime will be taught a lesson! And Monsieur Sodom Hussein will be freed, as is just!

I am a French american citizen and I vote!

Wow. You are a pathetic, stupid person.

That was really rude. I think that people are allowed to have their own opinions without other people thinking that they are "Pathetic, stupid" people. I mean seriously. I know some french too, how about this.(this is not about the French-american, this is for the big-head) vous est stupid!

That was really rude. I think that people are allowed to have their own opinions without other people thinking that they are "Pathetic, stupid" people. I mean seriously. I know some french too, how about this.(this is not about the French-american, this is for the big-head) vous est stupid!

People who think Kerry will solve or education problem are just fooling themselves. Education is not something that can be crammed down your throat. You have to value it for it to be useful. Shitty schools are shitty b/c the surrounding community doesn't give a shit about good education. Simple as that.

It's breathtaking how many people complain about budget deficits and lack of a national healthcare service at the same time. One will go with the other, folks. Nothing in our government's history would lead me to believe that it could actually run a healthcare program effectively (look at public schools, the post office, medicare, medicaid, SS, etc.)

Let's give nuclear material to Iran and see what they do????
My God how stupid can you be. Why can't he stick to simple stuff and Just stick to GWB/Satan on the Issues. Why does keep saysi things Like Pass a Global test??? Is he trying to lose??

I keep thinking that Kerry really does not want to win because then He 'd finially have to work for a living. Because otherwise why would keep saying such stupid things that Rove/Hades can turn into sound bites.


ARRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

Man, he's an ineffectual numbnuts. Granted, he has to be, since he can take every liberal vote for granted but needs to win undecideds by being undecided himself or some such, but he didn't win the first debate, Bush just lost it. He looks and argues like a frigging corpse. Fortunately Bush resembles Curious George, which is worse...

Bush is hitler. Kerry is Jesus. Vote Kerry

Bush is the war version of Ghandi

What the hell does that mean? "the war version of Gandhi?" Gandhi based his life's work around peaceful, civil disobedience. And learn to spell.

He's not Jesus. Jeez.

He may not be Jesus; but Bush is the devil

someone should watch the chris rock "never scared" DVD by far a politcal genius....an idiot savant if you will. but Bush is a lot like Hitler....one of the largest protests were staged when he was accepted as the nominee for the republican party, but no one heard about it. more than 100,000 people were there....a peaceful protest, but none the less people were arressted. It seems that we will soon see how much we have taken things like freedom of press and free speech for granted.

That protest was ALL OVER THE NEWS!!!! It was on CNN, Good Morning America, FOX news, all over radio news, and the internet. The reason people were arrested was because some of them began insulting the crowd control police, who are there doing nothing UNTIL people become violent. Our freedom of speech, freedon of press, and freedon of peaceful assembly will never be taken away.

Let's think about the dreamticket for '08!
Pres.: Hilary Clinton
V.P. : Patty Murray
Sec. of State: Howard Dean
National Sec. Advisor: Shelia Jackson Lee
Sec. of Education: Barbra Streisand
Sec. of Defense: Al Sharpton
Sec. of Treasury: Jesse Jackson

just plug al franken, michael moore and jane fonda into cabinet level positions and we'd finally have a decent government in this hellhole of a country!

Presidential Tracking Poll: Bush-Kerry

Saturday October 09, 2004--The latest Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll shows President George W. Bush with 50% of the vote and Senator John Kerry with 46%. Today is the first time all year that either candidate has hit the 50% mark in our survey.

Sorry, ye displaced masses without a candidate on either side to satisfy your hard-line needs, but the President isn't going anywhere. Feel free to expatriate to Canada; I hear their experiment in socialized health care has gone real well. The good Lord willing, Bush will kick off his next four years by dropping a few BLU-82s on Chirac's wintertime chateau. Afterwards, we can put the charred corpses to a global truth test. It's true, your asses were just kicked. Its irrelevant, what your second-rate, has-been, ungreatful little nation has to say about it.

looking at the nonsense you have to write it is not surprising that we can't do better than a lousy leader like our dear George Bush.

Hello all you fellow Americans and potential voters out there. I've been taking some breaks from playing golf and showing off my tough-talk and technique to the media to find what you've been saying about me. First of all, I want to say thank you to all those warmongers who have been speaking on my behalf. I most dearly thank you because if it wasn't for you, it would be difficult to get away with all my lies about stockpiles of nukes in Iraq and Saddam and Osama being old buddies and working together to plot 9/11. I feel bad for leaving you with the dirty work, but for what's it worth, I am grateful to you for trying to cover my rear end. And for it, nearly 50% of the country still supports me. On the other hand, I apologize to all the peace mongers shouting in front of the white house and hope you will still consider voting for me. After all, I like Martin Luther King, too. I believe in freedom and equality, as well as peace, that's why I sent your brothers and sisters over to Iraq so I could stop those terrorist killers. Besides, it wasn�ft my fault. My daddy made me do it. Anyway, you�fre stuck with me. My rich constituents have more than enough money to control the media and finance my campaign. Your middle-class nickels and dimes won�ft be enough to help Kerry beat me. But don�ft worry. I am cutting taxes, so the CEOS can provide a nice juicy minimum wage job for you. That way, you can feel nice and snug under our wing. Well, liberals and patriots, I got a run. I have some oil tycoons, gun lobbyists, a few Saudis and Bin Ladens and Dick and Daddy Bush waiting to finish this last game of golf with me. I bet an OPEC member a million barrels of oil on this one, and at the moment, I have the edge. I wish you could see my drive. Actually, you can see me play in a new movie by a filmmaker named Michael Moore, but don�ft believe what he says about me. And remember, as John Ashcroft always said, "remain vigilant." Recently, I overheard that the Al Qaeda are planning to invade the suburbs. I�fm thinking about raising the threat level to cherry red. In the name of freedom and my dad, G.W.B.

who the hell writes this kind of crap?: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

I hate John Kerry, though I have to vote for him, because... He runs around in an imported, six-figure tux telling people that he "knows," presumably because of their atire, that he's the only party present earning over $200,000 a year. Real good, Kerry. You make me sooo proud.

first the pm of poland criticized kerry, then both japanese pm koizumi and a member of the cabinet said they wanted bush to win, and now russian president vladimir putin is jumping on the bush bandwagon. who does kerry have so far, chirac and kim jong il?

Putin urges voters to back Bush
By CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty
Monday, October 18, 2004 Posted: 7:08 AM EDT (1108 GMT)

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin says terrorist attacks in Iraq are aimed at preventing the re-election of U.S. President George W. Bush and that a Bush defeat "could lead to the spread of terrorism to other parts of the world."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/10/18/putin.iraq/index.html

So far, the French, Germans, North Koreans, and Osama bin Laden have thrown their weight behind Kerry.

How is it that when a foreign leader pledges support for Bush the republicans are all over it and using it in their campaigning (even when it is a brutal dictator like Putin), but when concerned individuals in foreign countries (such as the Guardian readers in UK) pledge support for Kerry they are interfering and should butt out. Another victory for popular democracy (ala GOP).

Iran's Choice: Democrats or Republicans?

Sharq, Daily Newspaper, No. 317, Oct. 17th, 2004, Page 1-2
By : Mohammad Qouchani

http://www.netiran.com/?fn=artd(2231)

For the first time in the history of Iran-US relations, Tehran favors the victory of Democrats in the November 2 presidential elections. Iran knows well that both Democrats and Republicans bear grudge of the Islamic Republic but reelection of Bush is the worst. John Kerry's victory would mean the same with more discipline. However, a defeat of George W. Bush is welcome in Tehran because he has become the most detestable conservative in Iran.

Has anyone ever wondered why Bush is detested in Iran...could it be because they can't develop nuclear weapons or other devastating weapons without us breathing down their necks? No wonder they want Kerry to win, do you think it�s so they CAN develop them and further threaten the U.S. or its bases on foreign soil? We need to ask ourselves, will I feel safe living my life knowing that at any moment Iran could destroy us? Or am I counting on Kerry paying people off like Clinton did for the sake of our safety � is that the discipline that Kerry would have that the article speaks of? Because I haven�t heard Kerry specifically talk of any plans � I�ve only heard him say that he �Has a plan� but what is his plan? Afterall, it did work for Clinton didn't it? I mean, c'mon...September 11th was all Bush's fault, right? I mean, he was only technically in office maybe 8 months when it happened...and the plan terrorists attempted to execute during Clinton's term doesn't count because he's a democrat, right? Get real people-this is the most important election of our lifetime. We are a generation raised and educated by a bunch of post-Vietnam liberals and you need to seriously think about your future, or should you want to have children, the future of your children. Vote for who you think is best, but stop the insults or the foul language, it�s really immature � talk about the serious issues facing us in this election, not who you think would have been a better fit if Kerry was not the democrat-elect. Is that really reason enough to vote for Kerry? Vote for who serves your opinions best, not just who is a democrat or republican.

Safety from Iran? Nobody with the exception of a select few wants to kill Americans. We could sell a security away by electing George Bush and continue with his stubborn isolationism. Iran and North Korea or any country wants to threaten the United States. It's been fabricated to keep us afraid. There are terrorist groups that need to be dealt with, but not entire nation-states. The reasons for going to war in Iraq were fabricated. Saddam was not a threat our national security. There were no weapons of mass destruction and there's no proof he was working with Bin Laden. There were other reasons for starting that war, but the government would not tell us exactly what those reasons are.

MOTHERFUCKING SON OF A WHORE HE'S A GODDAMNED CONSERVATIVE IN DEMOCRAT'S CLOTHING I RAGE FOREVER AND EVER OH DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN AND SATAN IN HELL WHY THE FUCK CAN'T THE FUCKING DEMOCRATIC PARTY COME UP WITH A CANDIDATE WHO DOESN'T MAKE ME FEEL LIKE POND SCUM FOR SUPPORTING GOD ALMIGHTY MAKE THE PAIN STOP I WANT A SERIOUS CANDIDATE NOT ANOTHER FUCKING SOCK PUPPET I FEEL ANNNNGERRRRRRRRRRR

okay i feel better now

i'll be back in an hour to scream again
hold my calls

Former Democratic President Jimmy Carter says that the American Revolutionary War was "UNNECESSARY"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6281085/

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you the question about�this is
going to cause some trouble with people�but as an
historian now and studying the Revolutionary War as it
was fought out in the South in those last years of the
War, insurgency against a powerful British force, do
you see any parallels between the fighting that we did
on our side and the fighting that is going on in Iraq
today?

CARTER: Well, one parallel is that the Revolutionary
War, more than any other war up until recently, has
been the most bloody war we�ve fought. I think
another parallel is that in some ways the
Revolutionary War could have been avoided. It was an
unnecessary war.

Had the British Parliament been a little more
sensitive to the colonial�s really legitimate
complaints and requests the war could have been
avoided completely, and of course now we would have
been a free country now as is Canada and India and
Australia, having gotten our independence in a
nonviolent way.

What's scary is that he actually believes Canada and India would have become free countries if we hadn't paved the way through revolution. Without the example of the U.S. as a former colony turned trade partner, England would never have become the U.K., and Canada, Australia, and India would be colonies today. I always thought Carter was ineffective; now I know he's just plain clueless.

You would love to believe that war is necessary. We can't get enough of the misery it brings us. For some reason, we are drawn to it. It's no wonder it has never left us. Iraq war is a hard example of lessons never learned.

A pretty awful thing to say

IF bush wins...well if bush steals the election again...there will be some people committing suicide

They will be sorely missed! Maybe if you could help them get past their paranoia about stolen elections, that would also help with their depression! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

This is from Michael Moore:


Dear Friends,

Enough of the handwringing! Enough of the doomsaying! Do I have to come
there and personally calm you down? Stop with all the defeatism, OK?
Bush IS a goner -- IF we all just quit our whining and bellyaching and
stop shaking like a bunch of nervous ninnies. Geez, this is embarrassing!
The Republicans are laughing at us. Do you ever see them cry, "Oh, it's
all over! We are finished! Bush can't win! Waaaaaa!"

Hell no. It's never over for them until the last ballot is shredded.
They are never finished -- they just keeping moving forward like sharks
that never sleep, always pushing, pulling, kicking, blocking, lying.

They are relentless and that is why we secretly admire them -- they
just simply never, ever give up. Only 30% of the country calls itself
"Republican," yet the Republicans own it all -- the White House, both
houses of Congress, the Supreme Court and the majority of the governorships.
How do you think they've been able to pull that off considering they
are a minority? It's because they eat you and me and every other liberal
for breakfast and then spend the rest of the day wreaking havoc on the
planet.

Look at us -- what a bunch of crybabies. Bush gets a bounce after his
convention and you would have thought the Germans had run through Poland
again. The Bushies are coming, the Bushies are coming! Yes, they caught
Kerry asleep on the Swift Boat thing. Yes, they found the frequency in
Dan Rather and ran with it. Suddenly it's like, "THE END IS NEAR! THE
SKY IS FALLING!"

No, it is not. If I hear one more person tell me how lousy a candidate
Kerry is and how he can't win... Dammit, of COURSE he's a lousy
candidate -- he's a Democrat, for heavens sake! That party is so pathetic,
they even lose the elections they win! What were you expecting, Bruce
Springsteen heading up the ticket? Bruce would make a helluva president,
but guys like him don't run -- and neither do you or I. People like Kerry
run.

Yes, OF COURSE any of us would have run a better, smarter, kick-ass
campaign. Of course we would have smacked each and every one of those
phony swifty boaty bastards down. But WE are not running for president --
Kerry is. So quit complaining and work with what we have. Oprah just
gave 300 women a... Pontiac! Did you see any of them frowning and moaning
and screaming, "Oh God, NOT a friggin' Pontiac!" Of course not, they
were happy. The Pontiacs all had four wheels, an engine and a gas pedal..
You want more than that, well, I can't help you. I had a Pontiac once
and it lasted a good year. And it was a VERY good year.

My friends, it is time for a reality check.

1. The polls are wrong. They are all over the map like diarrhea. On
Friday, one poll had Bush 13 points ahead -- and another poll had them
both tied. There are three reasons why the polls are b.s.: One, they are
polling "likely voters." "Likely" means those who have consistently
voted in the past few elections. So that cuts out young people who are
voting for the first time and a ton of non-voters who are definitely going
to vote in THIS election. Second, they are not polling people who use
their cell phone as their primary phone. Again, that means they are not
talking to young people. Finally, most of the polls are weighted with
too many Republicans, as pollster John Zogby revealed last week. You are
being snookered if you believe any of these polls.

2. Kerry has brought in the Clinton A-team. Instead of shunning Clinton
(as Gore did), Kerry has decided to not make that mistake.

3. Traveling around the country, as I've been doing, I gotta tell ya,
there is a hell of a lot of unrest out there. Much of it is not being
captured by the mainstream press. But it is simmering and it is real. Do
not let those well-produced Bush rallies of angry white people scare
you. Turn off the TV! (Except Jon Stewart and Bill Moyers -- everything
else is just a sugar-coated lie).

4. Conventional wisdom says if the election is decided on "9/11" (the
fear of terrorism), Bush wins. But if it is decided on the job we are
doing in Iraq, then Bush loses. And folks, that "job," you might have
noticed, has descended into the third level of a hell we used to call
Vietnam. There is no way out. It is a full-blown mess of a quagmire and the
body bags will sadly only mount higher. Regardless of what Kerry meant
by his original war vote, he ain't the one who sent those kids to their
deaths -- and Mr. and Mrs. Middle America knows it. Had Bush bothered
to show up when he was in the "service" he might have somewhat of a clue
as to how to recognize an immoral war that cannot be "won." All he has
delivered to Iraq was that plasticized turkey last Thanksgiving. It is
this failure of monumental proportions that is going to cook his goose
come this November.

So, do not despair. All is not over. Far from it. The Bush people need
you to believe that it is over. They need you to slump back into your
easy chair and feel that sick pain in your gut as you contemplate
another four years of George W. Bush. They need you to wish we had a
candidate who didn't windsurf and who was just as smart as we were when WE knew
Bush was lying about WMD and Saddam planning 9/11. It's like Karl Rove
is hypnotizing you -- "Kerry voted for the war...Kerry voted for the
war...Kerrrrrryyy vooootted fooooor theeee warrrrrrrrrr..."

Yes...Yes...Yesssss...He did! HE DID! No sense in fighting now...what I
need is sleep...sleeep...sleeeeeeppppp...

WAKE UP! The majority are with us! More than half of all Americans are
pro-choice, want stronger environmental laws, are appalled that assault
weapons are back on the street -- and 54% now believe the war is wrong.
YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO CONVINCE THEM OF ANY OF THIS -- YOU JUST HAVE TO
GIVE THEM A RAY OF HOPE AND A RIDE TO THE POLLS. CAN YOU DO THAT? WILL
YOU DO THAT?

Just for me, please? Buck up. The country is almost back in our hands.
Not another negative word until Nov. 3rd! Then you can bitch all you
want about how you wish Kerry was still that long-haired kid who once had
the courage to stand up for something. Personally, I think that kid is
still inside him. Instead of the wailing and gnashing of your teeth,
why not hold out a hand to him and help the inner soldier/protester come
out and defeat the forces of evil we now so desperately face. Do we
have any other choice?

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
mmflint@aol.com

This is what the country has been reduced to.......the race for the nation's most coveted office is between a fickle, spineless, double-speaking, fence straddling, wealthy fool and a under educated, over opinionated, ego driven, self centered irrational ass. OUT of a over a quarter of a billion people this is what we get to choose from? Wouldn't our forefathers be proud? This is the epitome of freedom.........we're so free and politically correct that we have lowered our criteria for the Presidency to allow for not just any moron, but for all morons to compete. Now that's what I call FREEDUMB!

this kind of criticism comes cheap. if you don't like the two candidates, get out there and get involved in politics so it can get better for everyone, but enough with the cheap remarks.

Guns and Gooses, OH MY!

Let's just hope Kerry's as ineffectual as possible. Bush was very good at getting things done, and look how screwed we are because of it! Actually, to be safe, we should elect someone in a coma.

Looking at most of the posts here has taken away any hope I had for this country. It's no wonder someone like George Bush is our leader. You are truly a reflection of the character of our administration. Just vote for him in this election. You and the present-day administration are a match made in heaven.

American voters should count themselves lucky:
1. They actually have a vote, while the rest of the world can do nothing but wait for the results of the presidential election.
2. At least the US political landscape still provides a party that would make a viable alternative to the present government. In both the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom this is not so, and it's driving us crazy!

So, imagine what it would be like to have NO viable candidate to contend the presidential elections, and use your precious vote for Kerry. Please!

T Daly,
Cork,
Ireland.

"American voters should count themselves lucky: 1. They actually have a vote, while the rest of the world can do nothing but wait for the results of the presidential election. 2. At least the US political landscape still provides a party that would make a viable alternative to the present government. In both the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom this is not so, and it's driving us crazy! So, imagine what it would be like to have NO viable candidate to contend the presidential elections, and use your precious vote for Kerry. Please! T Daly, Cork, Ireland."

your post is a breath of fresh air. The election over here is pretty close with one poll saying one thing and another saying something different. It's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out. Thanks for your encouraging words.

I suggest you concern yourself with your own country's problems. Ireland spawns it's own terrorists because you people stand for it. So please don't give us suggestions for who to vote for in our country.

"I suggest you concern yourself with your own country's problems. Ireland spawns it's own terrorists because you people stand for it. So please don't give us suggestions for who to vote for in our country."

Now, what was the point in posting this? To litter this web page with more rubbish? Absolutely unnecessary. The post from Ireland had a friendly nature and was not meant to be aggressive towards anyone. What a cheap shot. I hope you feel better now that you had a chance to take your frustrations out on someone. You were just looking for an opportunity to attack someone. Well, mission accomplished. The jollies you're getting from this must be really refreshing.

Thanks for the back-up! To be honest, the jibe about terrorists is a very cheap shot - and reflects the poster's lack of knowledge about the world. Cork = Republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland, and in any case, all countries spawn terrorists: what about the Oklahoma bombing?
Whatever, it is totally beside the point. I am just as entitled to urge Americans to vote for Kerry as any other citizen in the world - sure, you have more at stake in that the president also controls domestic policy, but it's in the area of foreign policy that Kerry will make the biggest difference, and that brings THE REST OF THE WORLD into the equation.

Hey, this is unfair. All countries in the world have terrorists - and all countries have problems, but in most countries the people care about more than their own insular interests. The international community is disintegrating, and the only way to get back on the right path is to get rid of Bush!

I agree. The best way to preserve peace and security is to preserve the international community and to only strengthen it. And to do that, we need communication, respect for other people foreign and domestic, we need cooperation among everyone foreign and domestic, and we need to remove Bush and find a leader who will take these values far more seriously. There was a writer at the bushcountry.org website who actually wrote an article titled "Ditch World Opinion." Personally, with all due respect to those who will vote for Bush, I find such remarks distasteful, insensitive, and I don't see how that kind of disregard for other kinds of people is going to make the anyone safer. We need the rest of the world. We need to work together.

Who's "we?" What "world opinion?" Last time I checked, the world is a pretty damn big place. You think it�s unified or something or that everyone agrees with everyone else...except W. What about Australia? What about the Italy�s prime minister? Do they not count? No, the only world opinion that counts for you is the opinion that you agree with. What hypocrites! This is why you dumb Dems nominated such a lousy candidate, because you have no principles to stand on, only vapid references to non-existent �world opinion� and paranoid delusions of stolen elections. HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! 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I just spent a month in Italy and most Italians hate Berlusconi. He personally owns three of the six television channels over there and is way way out of line with the rest of Italy. If only you could see Florence, with all the peace flags hanging...and see the angry protests that take place in rome almost daily.

I just came back from a year in Florence, and this is true: Berlusconi is hated there. But Florence is a somewhat isolated enclave in Northern Italy regarding political leanings. To say that the majority of Italians hate Berlusconi is misleading. Like the situation here in the US, as many people like him as hate him. That said, the friendship of a clown like Berlusconi does not make a great case for Bush's policy...

"What "world opinion?" "

Ask your pal at www.bushcountry.org. Apparently, he seems to think there is one and it isn't compatible with the Bush administration's agenda. He believes we shouldn't care what the rest of the world thinks.

Actually, I have no friends at that site, and if they're making the same error you are, with out making the proper distinctions about what they mean by world opinion, then I don't have much desire to read their ignorant scribblings, especially if it claims to be conservative.

"Actually, I have no friends at that site, and if they're making the same error you are, with out making the proper distinctions about what they mean by world opinion, then I don't have much desire to read their ignorant scribblings, especially if it claims to be conservative."

Okay, I will define what world opinion means to me. Think what you want about my concept. You're entitled to that.

Although countries act independently and look after their own interests, most people of the world want the same things. We all want peace and security. We all want to have a clean and healthy environment. We all want to have a good economic and physical well-being. Also, all of us want to be free. We all basically want to get along. The world shares that goal. We all agree we want that. That is world opinion. Almost like a society even though it really isn't, we have institutions like the U.N. where we gather to resolve our differences, where we can get the help and support of other countries. It is in the interest of every country to take part in the forum that the U.N. provides because it provides an outlet for countries to communicate and solve their problems without resorting to military action unless absolutely necessary. This is to preserve peace. Every country wants that. That to me is world opinion. I admit this is oversimplifying it a bit because of course the interests of all countries play a role in international affairs. Of course. But all countries, most people around the world, are compassionate and don't want to see anyone hurt and do not wish to support unnecessary violence. This is basically universal. Since this is what basically all good people around the world feel, this is what I call world opinion. Since world opinion is against unnecessary force, there was not too much backing for the second Iraq war because Bush did not have the proof needed to back his assertions. The war was perceived as being unnecessary by the international community with the exception of a select few. And this is where it gets muddy. Some countries like Britain, Japan, Spain, and I believe Poland supported America because they were looking after their own interests. So, it is true that countries are motivated by their interests. France, Germany, and Russia all had financial interests in Iraq and they may have played a role in their decision to oppose the war, but that was not the only reason. If you look at what the bush administration had to offer the U.N., there really was no reason to go to war. Practically nobody wanted to support it. Not China, not Russia, probably most of the third world countries. Japan only did it because it lives under the umbrella of America even though a poll showed a majority opposed it. Most of the people in England opposed Blair's actions. This is an example of the will of people worldwide opposing an action they feel is unjust because most of the world believes in justice. And the Iraq war is hardly perceived as justice by most of the world. I use the Iraq war as an example of what I'm talking about. Other examples I believe would be the geneva convention and amnesty international to protect human rights because we all want to be treated fairly. There have been agreements to ban weapons and to protect the environment because we all want clean air and we don't want to destroy each other. At the same time, countries don't always agree with one another and cannot always be trusted and violate agreements. And countries have a right to reject participation in something if they feel it isn't in their interests. Bush wouldn't agree to the Kyoto pact to reduce carbon emissions he said to protect American jobs. It wasn't in our interest. He attacked Iraq against the will of the most of the world. But basically countries want the same things, so they try to cooperate and work together by agreeing to repect the same rules for engagement, by sharing culture, and doing business together to improve relationships. Again, it's for this reason that countries don't always agree with each other, but they all share the same goal. They agree the goal is the same, and this is world opinion. When something they feel gets in the way of that goal, they oppose it.

North Korea? China? Lybia? Mugabe? Assad of Syria? Saddam Hussein? The mullahs of Iran? Saudi Arabia's despotic royals? Yasser Arafat? The many of Arabs who would celebrate the destruction of Israel? Various other despots? Do you really think that these "all want peace and security...to have a clean and healthy environment?" That sounds much more like hope than an empirical statement. This is one of the reasons why conservatives don't trust the UN. Because it is based on a false premise, that "all share the same goal" and therefore are legitimate to participate on an equal level.

Also, you are not oversimplifying because nations act in their interest. Nations act in their interest, but those interests are not some objective standard all share...that is the oversimplification. North Korea, for example, is not acting in its interests, by our standards, when it starves itself in order to threaten a militarily superior foe. But, in terms of its own Stalinist ideology it is acting in its own interests by being belligerent and economically self-destructive. That is what your analysis misses; the objective reality that some act for evil ends, not just based on interest evaluations or out of compassion.

If this is true (that there are those who act on evil motives) such people would use the UN and other international bodies as tools in their game and not for the laudable goals you mention. Others who ignore their intentions are thereby abetting evil plans rather than helping to bring about a more compassionate world. Compassion is more than a desire for peace in the same way the medicine is more than the desire for others to be well. They both call for serious analysis and sometimes hard actions, not just rational discussion with whoever happens to show up at the table.

"North Korea? China? Lybia? Mugabe? Assad of Syria? Saddam Hussein? The mullahs of Iran? Saudi Arabia's despotic royals? Yasser Arafat? The many of Arabs who would celebrate the destruction of Israel? Various other despots? Do you really think that these "all want peace and security...to have a clean and healthy environment?" What you just posted here is highly misleading. These countries do not wish to attack America. Of course there is tension between the United States and these countries because they have been antagonized by U.S. rhetoric and policy. But it goes even deeper than that. It is far too complicated to say that these countries want to harm America, and it definitely wouldn't be unprovoked or out of misunderstanding. There are definitely select groups that want to harm us for political motives, and the president has a right to respond. China is trying to work with America because China's economy is growing and now everyone's interested in doing business there, including the U.S., so it is hard for me to understand where you get the idea that China is a danger to us. And nations themselves do not want to harm Israel. Again, select groups of people want to harm Israelis, but not entire nation-states. A lot of palestinians actually want peace with the Israelis, and of course some have commited terrorism for reasons rooted in a long history of bloodshed. There's no point in taking sides here.

"That sounds much more like hope than an empirical statement."

Admittedly, some of it may be naive, and I really don' t know if I'm right or wrong. We will never have enough information, and there will most likely be an imperfect understanding. We do the best with the information we have and form an opinion. This is my opinion. This is what I believe. It may be a flawed choice, but it's my choice and that's all that counts. And I'm sure of what I said is leaning on hope, hope that the world condition will improve. There's nothing wrong with having hope. Hope gives us the motivation to follow through.

"North Korea, for example, is not acting in its interests, by our standards, when it starves itself in order to threaten a militarily superior foe."

I wonder if that is true. Could you elaborate on that? Because I heard China, Japan, the United States, and South Korea are working together to starve North Korea on purpose. They are limiting the amount of aid or goods being imported there to starve the population in hope they will rise up against the regime. They are applying pressure by this means. This issue is actually complicated and I need to do more research because I still lack a lot of relevant information. Although I think North Korea has been reckless, United States has not done any justice to the situation by threatening North Korea with the agressive rhetoric and policy. North Korea is afraid of an American attack. They put virtually everything into their military to keep out what they refer to as "yankee imperialism." I imagine this wouldn't help the economic well-being of their people, either.

"But, in terms of its own Stalinist ideology it is acting in its own interests by being belligerent and economically self-destructive."

Again, it appears that the U.S. and other countries and can take credit as the source for some of the problems their facing. The harrassment has driven them into fear. At the same time, I've heard there has been some mishandlings by the North Korean regime as well. I'm doing my best to understand the situation over there with the information I have. I'm sure my thinking may change if I have more information.

"If this is true (that there are those who act on evil motives) such people would use the UN and other international bodies as tools in their game and not for the laudable goals you mention."

Of course we are not talking about blind trust. I worry, too, what would happen if too much trust was put in the hands of the outsiders. But there would be too many onlookers and legal conditions that would make it very difficult to use the U.N. in a highly corruptive way unless that country had a tremendous amount of power to either manipulate or ignore the U.N. There's only one country who can seriously do that today, and I'm not going to say its name, but I think you know who I am referring to. And there are examples of this: the second Iraq war, the time Richard Butler pulled out the inspectors out of Iraq on purpose to provoke a conflict, U.N. sanctions used to cripple Iraq. These are a couple examples.

But even though countries look after their interests, and in spite of the possible misuse or abuse of the U.N., the world will come together for the obvious good. After 9/11, practically the entire world came to America's aid. They wanted to help and approved of the invasion of Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. This is one but not the only case where "world opinion" was behind America. "World opinion" was basically supportive of the first Iraq war. But it won't always be behind America, and it wasn't in the case of the second Iraq war. But this is what I mean by world opinion. This is the type of situation I want you to understand I am referring to. I understand we must be careful and that countries will manipulate to get their own way, but in extreme cases like the ones I just mentioned, when it is obvious what is at stake, the world can be fair.

"Compassion is more than a desire for peace in the same way the medicine is more than the desire for others to be well. They both call for serious analysis and sometimes hard actions, not just rational discussion with whoever happens to show up at the table."

I agree. It is important to try and understand the real intentions of other people and entities and deal with them in a way that is just and fair regardless of what that action may entail. To do that, communication or rational discussion at the table and hard analysis of course should be done in order to help one decide the right course of action. This is being responsible. The opposite is reckless.

I'm going to have to stop here.

"That sounds much more like hope than an empirical statement."

when hope is turned into change, empirical statements can be altered, or as past ones, contradicted.

It never ceases to amaze me that liberals can't resist the urge to litter their sites with foul language and vitriolic rantings. That aside, what you all fail to understand is that Kerry lacks any principles. This is the root of his failings as a person and a candidate. Voting for him is a reflection of your own lack of principles.

"It never ceases to amaze me that liberals can't resist the urge to litter their sites with foul language and vitriolic rantings."

Then everyone's liberal because you're referring to practically the entire human race. Looks like you're alone. Oh, no you're not. One of your fellow bush supporters left this for us.

"ALL OF YOU ARE A BUNCH OF IGNORANT TERRORIST SUPPORTERS"

Doesn't he have a way with words?

"That aside, what you all fail to understand is that Kerry lacks any principles. This is the root of his failings as a person and a candidate. Voting for him is a reflection of your own lack of principles. "

You must be pretty righteous. Maybe you should run for president in the next election because if Kerry doesn't have principles, then neither does Bush. And from looking at some of the posts conservatives have posted on various websites, I would say their idea of principles is no different from liberals. As far as I can see, the two seem to be working for the same party. From the similarities in their posts, they have more in common than you think.

Forums like these are nothing but an addictive way for people to take our frustrations out on one another. It's an opportunity for us to speak out in any manner we want because our identities are anonymous, so there's no trouble. Anyway, enjoy campaigning for Bush.

Fuck off you worthless piece of shit! (BTW, after I go finish my GED on my nights off from Burger King I'll come back with some vitriolic rantings once I know what the hell they are).


=)

The lesser of 2 evils is still the lesser of 2 evils: we are not required to like Kerry, or to agree with all of his policies and principles (and I contend that he has both in abundance), we are only required to PREFER HIM TO BUSH. Period. Isn't that what this site is all about?
Surely framing one's argument in this way is more convincing to those who are undecided than claiming that Kerry himself is great?

good point

Yes, a very good point indeed! Here's a point you missed, you dumb Dems, and that's the President's supporters are much more excited about their candidate then you people are about yours. That means a higher turn-out for him on election day. Some of you at this site may decide not to show up on election day, and certainly many people who aren't political junkies will simply stay at home rather than vote. Thanks again you dumb Dems for nominating such a lousy candidate! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

" Here's a point you missed, you dumb Dems, and that's the President's supporters are much more excited about their candidate then you people are about yours. "

Of course we are critical of our own candidate. Nobody is above criticism, not even the ones closest to us. Being critical of my candidate of choice will not downgrade my vote.

"Being critical of my candidate of choice will not downgrade my vote."

OK, you may go and vote for a lousy candidate. But, what of the people who are swing voters or who think Bush is lousy but don't hate him like you Dems do. If they aren't avid followers of politics (I assume you are somewhat?) they will probably decide to a) go ahead and vote for Bush anyway or b) just stay home. YOU may not do that, but I'm asking you to look how normal people will react to Kerry and realize that this year will be another McGovern year. And lastly, thanks again you dumb Dems for nominating such a lousy candidate!!!

You know, for a moment there you really had me going. I could actually tell from the first several sentences you were actually trying to think, and then this:
"And lastly, thanks again you dumb Dems for nominating such a lousy candidate!!!"

You must be the "HA!HA!" bush supporter who keeps visiting the site and getting his jollies off making cheap remarks. I know this is going to be a serious uphill battle for you, but try to show a sign of emotional intelligence in your post next time.

Man, you give a group of people some thanks and all you get in return is grief. (No wonder people say liberals are humorless!)

But tell me this, Mr. Emotional Intelligence, what are you doing in the 'panic room' of a site called 'Kerry haters' if you're so emotionally stable? Isn't the whole point of the 'panic room' to not "keep it bottled up inside! Let it all out here?"

And once more, thanks.....oh never mind!

"But tell me this, Mr. Emotional Intelligence, what are you doing in the 'panic room' of a site called 'Kerry haters' if you're so emotionally stable?"

And what are you doing here, too, Mr. astroturfer? Shouldn't you be at a bush rally? I hear the GOP are hiring people to warmonger in opposition to the peace march for 6.75 an hour. You can get more information at bushcountry.org, freerepublic.com, and freedomain.com and warmongersareus.com, wehateliberals.com, and imaplasticpatriot.com. Expend your energy at those events and stop posting here. You have nothing constructive to say anyway. You're just picking fights, making cheap remarks, just saying a lot of things without really saying anything. You have no wish to find common ground with people who have differing viewpoints. You just want to hear yourself speak. And from now on, I will not waste my time responding to anymore of your garbage. You're not even a conservative. The conservatives I know, that I respect, don't do this kind of thing to people. And that goes for people with liberal leanings as well. It's one thing to clown around and have fun and make jokes about the candidates, to take it all lightly. It's another thing to rant, rave, and insult other people. And we need some humor because of a lot of people in America are on the edge right now since it's an election year. That's why we have this website, to get a release. Regardless of your choice of candidate and your political affiliations, unless you're only joking around or have something honestly constructive to say, I won't waste my time reading and responding to anymore nasty posts from people who have no intention of being reasonable anyway.

You're starting to stink up the web site with your posts.

That's quite an accomplishment. To stink up a site dedicated to hate and panic. How should I lighten it up?

"That's quite an accomplishment. To stink up a site dedicated to hate and panic. How should I lighten it up?"

Okay, you're right on this one. I'll give it to you. There's no way to lighten it up. It was stinking something crazy before you got here.

This is one of the most hilarious sites (unintentional?) I have ever seen. Almost everyone is "Anonymous" - making it look like a running schizoid conversation. "I hate you,!" "No - I hate you!"

After a few lines of "Anonymous" telling off "Anonymous" I was laughing out loud. I suspect that those with other names are just part of Anonymous' more dominant multiple personalities. Which fits in with a site called Kerry-Haters for Kerry.

And now Anonymous speaks again! Let the self-loathing resume!

Anonymous

You know, Anonymous, I'm getting really sick of your negative attitude...

Ya'll will have another reason to hate kerry on November 3...for being such a lousy candidate that he not only loses but also drags down some Senate candidates. Thanks you dumb Dems!!!

I can't wait till Bush wins, even if I didn't agree with his politics (most of which I do agree with) I'd vote for him cause Im sick of hearing all of you liberal babys crying for four years. All the "anybody but Bush" and your constant complaing, I hope you suffer for four more years.
The democratic party of today is a disgrace to so many great democrats that came before you (FDR, Truman, Kennedy etc etc)

"I hope you suffer for four more years."

I thought bush supporters loved their country. At least now I know what it takes to support military action in Iraq, and it definitely isn't compassion for other people. Please don't tell me you are a patriot and a lover of freedom for all people. Spare me that kind of talk that you love to mask yourselves with. I will win or go down with liberals and modern-day democrats. Either way is fine with me. Reading posts gives me no reason whatsoever to support conservative ideals and vote for Bush. The irony is that his actions have hardly been conservative. Rising deficits, the patriot act, big government, major wars without U.N. support, lying to get a war(remember, conservatives are absolute moralists, or so I've been preached), disregarding important international alliances and the rights of our own people when their different? Do you call that conservatism? Definitely not responsible conservatism. About the closest to conservatism he's ever demonstrated is his tax cut which mainly benefits the wealthiest Americans and his increase in military spending.

I'm actually a Kerry supporter, but I want to thank you for putting up this site. My husband just found it and its helping him cope through this last week. He's already alienated many of our friends with his rabid anti-Kerry views and he can't help but rank on the guy constantly. Hopefully having this panic room as an outlet will keep him sane and save our marriage.

Why are we voting for Kerry? Think about it, four more years of Bush in office the Republicans might become stale or even repulsive to moderate Americans. They might be willing to give a strong Democrat a chance at governing...can you say HILLARY CLINTON 2008!!!

But, four years of Kerry! Even us Dems don't like the guy, think of the swing voters!!! They'll hate him even more when they have to listen to him day after day. They might turn out even more Deomcrats out of office and Hillary would have little chance in 2012, and be too old in 2016. If we want a Clinton back in office, vote for Bush!

I'm voting for whomever god votes for

well, then, let's hope God's not registered in FL!

that was pretty funny.

Bush is so stupid it hurts and Kerry is just a tool. I'd rather go with the tool, then watch our nation go down in flames. There is only two words in Bush's vocabulary and its war and retard but he can't seem to grasp the definition on the second word, ironic much?

Bush is so stupid it hurts and Kerry is just a tool. I'd rather go with the tool, then watch our nation go down in flames. There is only two words in Bush's vocabulary and its war and retard but he can't seem to grasp the definition on the second word, ironic much?

Why would you use such a hateful word like "retard." I volunteer at a center for the mentally challenged and such words do much to lower their self-esteem. You should really think about channeling you anger towards more positive thoughts instead lashing out at a marginalized group!

I agree with your views, but this is a reflection of the malaise within the Democratic Party - the need to be politically correct at all times means that we are constantly running off on tangents that are irrelevant to the argument at hand. We cannot fight all evils at once. Deal with the point, and then make less relevant comments - it's clearer that way.
Before you get mad, remember that I agree with your point, although I think you might be a little oversensitive - the comment was not intended to "lash out" at a marginalised group, any more than Arnie's "girly men" comment was intended to lash out at women and gay men. What Democrats need are thicker skins and clearer vision.

"I agree with your views, but this is a reflection of the malaise within the Democratic Party - the need to be politically correct at all times means that we are constantly running off on tangents that are irrelevant to the argument at hand. We cannot fight all evils at once. Deal with the point, and then make less relevant comments - it's clearer that way. Before you get mad, remember that I agree with your point, although I think you might be a little oversensitive - the comment was not intended to "lash out" at a marginalised group, any more than Arnie's "girly men" comment was intended to lash out at women and gay men. What Democrats need are thicker skins and clearer vision."

I agree with you, though the "shut up retard" remark was pretty funny if you take it lightly. That was good.

shut up retard

Question does anyone care about gay rights, pro choice, not having to feel ashamed of this country, that is exactly what bush did to us, he put us in a war that wasnt ours to fight. Shame has been brought to this country and it seems everyone else around the world sees it except americans. So why don't you realize who and what you are voting for when you do vote.

Ok, this is not going to go in my favour, but I am a French woman, from Lyon, and I am married to an American man whose entire family vote for the Republican Party. They are blind! I try to tell them how he is seen in Europe and elsewhere, but they do not care. Before anyone reacts to this: I AM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN and, as such, i am just as entitled to speak as any of you - I pay taxes too.

It's like this. A vote for Kerry is a vote to end the ideals that rule this country. A vote for Kerry is a vote to fuck yourself over.

"It's like this. A vote for Kerry is a vote to end the ideals that rule this country. A vote for Kerry is a vote to fuck yourself over."

That depends on if you agree with the ideals: Truth distortions, the patriot act, corruptive use of the military, suppresson of those with differing ideals, not to mention people who have to curse and insult because they can't find the words to say what's on their mind.

quote: It's like this. A vote for Kerry is a vote to end the ideals that rule this country. A vote for Kerry is a vote to fuck yourself over.


and what might those ideals be?

If Kerry wins, Hillary will never be president. If Kerry loses, there will be a disastrous Bush second term, with no successor in sight (Rove will finish them all off in order to keep Bush looking presidential -- sort of like how Kim Jong-Il never stands next to tall people...) and the GOP will crash and burn.

And then we can launch the HillaryHatersforHillary.com page.

I find it hard to expend the energy needed to actually hate Kerry, so that makes me an unenthusiatic-about Kerry Kerry supporter. I've occasionally thought about writing in someone with actual BALLS, like Howard Dean, but then Bush says or does something that reminds me just how apalling four more years of lying, cheating and stealing would be, so I again resolve to hold my nose and vote for Kerry.

Thanks for letting me get that off of my chest; this must be how people feel at their first A.A. meeting.

;-)

This is what I have been telling all my Republican friends who are appalled by The Bush White House's fiscal irresponsibility: Both of these candidates have proposed budgetary plans which will run up additional astronomic deficits. With a Republican House and Senate in place, Bush will once again get whatever he asks for. Kerry, on the other hand, will face a hostile Congress, which will not give him anything he wants. Vote for fiscal sanity! Vote for gridlock! Vote for Kerry!

Wow. Wow. This is weird. You guys are a bunch of very, very angry people.

It is wierd, isn't it? Not sure there's much of an air of authenticity, either. If this site is representative of a sufficient number of actual voters in the swing states on Nov. 2, people who so despise the current administration and its policies they are willing to vote for an anti-leader who will bring with him his own disgrace and political gridlock, here's what we have to look forward to: Every element of the Kerry "plan" for America and its success is pegged to the charismatic leadership and credibility of a man who has no charisma, no leadership qualities and no credibility, even with his core constituency, and is destined to go nowhere. The Republicans will likely pick up 3-5 Senate seats regardless of what happens in the Presidential race. Kerry will accomplish nothing in the realm of the domestic policies so important to the Democrat base. His initiative in foreign policy is likely to resemble the Rose Garden politics of Carter combined with the appeasement policies of Chamberlain. After 4 years of being slapped around by the EU, the UN, NK, Iran and China in ways we haven't experienced since before the White Fleet sailed, we will be no more loved, safe or credible than we are today. However, in the interim, The Kerry's will have spent more money and alienated and offended more constituencies in their own nation, and more members of the international community than has, even, the administration of George W. Bush. The 2008 election will see backlash that will pale in comparison to 1980, and a new Republican administration will be swept into office with the first "mandate" numbers at the polls in decades. And, the inability of the Democratic Party to put forth a credible candidate in 2004 will have set the whole scenario up with an unmistakable and forseeable clarity. You lament for Dean? For the empty suit of Clark? Give us all a break. The Democratic ticket was a non-starter from day one of the primaries, and if the DNC doesn't get its act together the illusion of a two-party system will completely vanish and we'll be down to one party, largely influenced if not controlled by the extreme Christian right. And no one, including the core Republican Party faithful wants that. Spend less time directing your angst to this "panic room" and get focused on identifying, recruiting and preparing to run a Democrat candidate for President who is not a national disgrace in 2008. Kerry's hardly worth the trouble to mark the ballot, and his election will be the death knell for the DNC in this country. And, given what this web site represents, it may be about time for the DNC to die.

You are entitled to your opinion. You have made a lot of predictions in your post. I can't take your word because they are at the most, predictions. Nobody really knows what's going to happen in the future. We can only speculate.

And maybe Bush will win anyway. It's a tight race. Nevertheless, the post will not sway me to choose a candidate who does not represent me. If anything, Ralph Nader best represents me personally, but I'm voting for Kerry. Bush and me differ on a lot of issues, and I'm strongly against the Iraq war. Although other republican presidents were no prize package, I don't remember them being this corrupt. At least his father, George Sr, had the backing of the international community when he went to war, whether I agreed with it or not.

You are entitled to your opinion. You have made a lot of predictions in your post. I can't take your word because they are at the most, predictions. Nobody really knows what's going to happen in the future. We can only speculate.

And maybe Bush will win anyway. It's a tight race. Nevertheless, the post will not sway me to choose a candidate who does not represent me. If anything, Ralph Nader best represents me personally, but I'm voting for Kerry. Bush and me differ on a lot of issues, and I'm strongly against the Iraq war. Although other republican presidents were no prize package, I don't remember them being this corrupt. At least his father, George Sr, had the backing of the international community when he went to war, whether I agreed with it or not.

"At least his father, George Sr, had the backing of the international community when he went to war, whether I agreed with it or not."

Wait a minute. Maybe you were the lone voice of reason among the Left during Bush I, but I don't remember anyone back then saying such a thing. The Left just as vociferously opposed the First Gulf War, with no caveats because of Security Council approval. That's why some conservatives smell hypocrisy in all this talk about needing to respect world opinion, because those on the Left only respect world opinion when they agree with it. (Note how the liberal Episcopalian Church respects international opinion on homosexuality.)

"Maybe you were the lone voice of reason among the Left during Bush I, but I don't remember anyone back then saying such a thing. The Left just as vociferously opposed the First Gulf War, with no caveats because of Security Council approval. That's why some conservatives smell hypocrisy in all this talk about needing to respect world opinion"

You see everything only one way: Left and Right. This has nothing to do with being liberal. And yes, I know a lot of liberals opposed the first gulf war. I'm not speaking for them. I am speaking for myself. And whether you agree with the first gulf war or not, the truth of the matter is that his father acted more responsibly than his son. And it is not hypocritical to say you were against the first gulf war and feel his father's actions were more fair. I'm saying in comparison to his son, there was more integrity in and a stronger rationale for that war. Although some conservatives feel the same way, I am not speaking for them and I am not speaking for liberals, either. I am speaking for myself.

"Maybe you were the lone voice of reason among the Left during Bush I, but I don't remember anyone back then saying such a thing."

Of course you never heard such a thing. The second Iraq war hadn't occured yet. I'm saying with hindsight in comparison to this war.

Me and my whole school voted today.... I voted for bush. I don't even like him, but he's like WAY better than scary Kerry. But.... in my real opinion, I think we're screwed either way!!!

p.s. For all u suckers that hate bush just cuz he started the war... you really shood find a real reason to hate him

"For all u suckers that hate bush just cuz he started the war... you really shood find a real reason to hate him"

Give it a rest, man. You aren't swaying anyone with that kind of talk.

Killing people for bad made up intel isn't a reason to dislike a president? Guess everybody needs to apologize to LBJ and Nixon.

"But tell me this, Mr. Emotional Intelligence, what are you doing in the 'panic room' of a site called 'Kerry haters' if you're so emotionally stable?"

And what are you doing here, too, Mr. astroturfer? Shouldn't you be at a bush rally? I hear the GOP are hiring people to warmonger in opposition to the peace march for 6.75 an hour. You can get more information at bushcountry.org, freerepublic.com, and freedomain.com and warmongersareus.com, wehateliberals.com, and imaplasticpatriot.com. Expend your energy at those events and stop posting here. You have nothing constructive to say anyway. You're just picking fights, making cheap remarks, just saying a lot of things without really saying anything. You have no wish to find common ground with people who have differing viewpoints. You just want to hear yourself speak. And from now on, I will not waste my time responding to anymore of your garbage. You're not even a conservative. The conservatives I know, that I respect, don't do this kind of thing to people. And that goes for people with liberal leanings as well. It's one thing to clown around and have fun and make jokes about the candidates, to take it all lightly. It's another thing to rant, rave, and insult other people. And we need some humor because of a lot of people in America are on the edge right now since it's an election year. That's why we have this website, to get a release. Regardless of your choice of candidate and your political affiliations, unless you're only joking around or have something honestly constructive to say, I won't waste my time reading and responding to anymore nasty posts from people who have no intention of being reasonable anyway

"You're not even a conservative. The conservatives I know, that I respect, don't do this kind of thing to people."

How do you know what your conservative friends are doing? Do they know that spend your time in the panic room of a site dedicated to hate? I suspect not.

You may not spend your time responding to my garbage, but can you respond to this garbage?

" How do you know what your conservative friends are doing? Do they know that spend your time in the panic room of a site dedicated to hate? I suspect not. You may not spend your time responding to my garbage, but can you respond to this garbage?"

I clicked on your link, and I could see your point. I saw the posts at the site and I saw the download as well. Keep in mind, though, this web site is only a joke. It shouldn't be taken so seriously. Of course I've read some distasteful stuff here as I did at the link you provided me, but those posts only represent the people that post them. There are also some stuff that is funny and entertaining. But I enjoy spending time at this site posting and reading messages. It's just something I do in my spare time for fun. There's no harm in it. Maybe both of us are taking this too seriously.

"You may not spend your time responding to my garbage, but can you respond to this garbage?"

And the download was funny

The time they threw the football- what tools
The dumbass comment about hunting- Just a couple of guys gettin' real, swappin' stories, blah blah blah.
The frigging millionaire racist wife raised in S. Africa on a plantation- it's killing me.
But then I look and see
Soldiers running in the sand- no WMD here, nope none there
Nukuler- its a speech impediment
Fuck France- and the Constitution
Money going out the window- for liberal programs like welfare, and government schools, and farm subsidies, and new agencies to monitor other agencies, and billions of dollars to a continent thousands of miles away to help prevent the spread of aids.
Zell Miller can tell Kerry to sit down and shut the hell up over the phone and Kerry will do what he is told. They're both dumbass monkey ass pilots. Go Kerry, hoorah, goodie, hip hip hooray, now fuck off.

Sad, isn't it. Voting for one moron because of the other moron. The other option is political masturbation: a vote for the Libertarian or Nader. It will make me feel better, but do nothing for anybody else, not even the Libertarian or Nader. Maybe we could write in McCain or Dean. Hell, don't vote. Kerry can lay low for a couple of days and win.

Why the heck are people that are obviously voting Bush even posting? I thought this was a Kerry haters for Kerry website? I was reading down the posts and decided it was all a bunch of insults for both Candidates. Why would anyone vote for Nadar anyway? He is just a vote stealer, he is not going to win? Are people acctually going to sit back and not vote because they don't care? That is really sad! I can't believe this, I kinda am under the voting age so I've got to sit back and get screwed by some lazy bums who expect a person to win no matter what. Your votes don't count right? Is that your excuse. MY GOSH. Do you know how annoying this is? All the children in my school tell me about the Candidate they would support...but they can't even vote. They leave it up to you: the registered voters and you're sitting around taking in every lie the Candidates decide to say? Do you know some of the bad things Bush has done? If you did, you probably would be loving Kerry right now! I can't believe this. How can...Whatever, I can't do anything to get you guys out there and voting, but I can try and explain (semi nicely) that this is getting on my nerves! I don't want to get killed by a terriorist attack cuz our prez. is out their fighting over oil! Do any of you see the news? 1000 SOLDIERS KILLED, AND MORE! Some of my friends are in Iraq right now, and this really cute boy, with blonde hair, blue eyes(taught me how to hold a gun).
He is only twenty and he's over there! Do you really want this backdoor draft? Or are you going to take me seriously and vote? VOTE FOR KERRY! (Sorry I used to dislike Kerry, but thought anyone but Bush) Now I am more educated, I read books, watched the debates, watched TV, and surfed the NET! Do the same and you will soon find out... Kerry isn't the flip flopper you think he is... Maybe Bush just lied to the senate and when they found out the truth the senate changed their minds?? Ever think of that? Anyway, I just got soooo worked up and I am not wasting my time another second on this. My dad's the chief moderator (it's so cool.)

is that a lot or a little? a thousand casualties is like a bad hour at Normandy beach.
maybe you need to take a look at what bin laden had to say about americans being unwilling to take casualties, as shown in somalia.

"is that a lot or a little? a thousand casualties is like a bad hour at Normandy beach. maybe you need to take a look at what bin laden had to say about americans being unwilling to take casualties, as shown in somalia."

One death is too many. Evey human life is valuable. I won't elaborate. I think anyone can understand what I mean regardless of whether you agree or disagree.

Which is why I oppose the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and World War II. Think of how many fewer deaths there would have been if we hadn't gone to war. I won't elaborate!

It's liberal crap like that that pisses me of--" Everylife is valuable" Seriosly...take a look at the millions of babies that are being slaughtered each year during partial birth abortion (you know, when the mother carries the baby to full term, the baby is extracted by its legs from the womb and its brains are sucked out from its head so that the skull can collapse and the baby's body can slide easily out) Yeah, you know, partial birth abortion which Kerry voted to PROTECT. (honorable guy) Yep, EVEY SINGLE life matters...especially those lives that can't even make the decision for themselves to put themselves in danger. YEah, thanks a lot for representing all those valuable lives in your vote for kerry!

"I've got to sit back and get screwed by some lazy bums"

Hope you dad doesn't find out about that!

So do I, you won't tell him will you? He'll kill me.

is bin Laden's tape, in which he makes all the same points as Michael Moore made. Bush stole the election in Florida, the real problem is the US-Israel alliance, Bush read to little kids about goats instead of magically flying to NYC and preventing the planes from hitting the WTC...


JEFF JARVIS is former TV critic for TV Guide and People, creator of Entertainment Weekly, Sunday Editor of the NY Daily News, and a columnist on the San Francisco Examiner:

Bin Laden remixes Fahrenheit 9/11

: The eerie thing about the bin Laden tape is how he remixes Michael Moore -- remixes as if in a Cuisinart. I swear the guy saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and picked up the themes for his latest wacky show -- even the fixation with that goat book. It's so nutty that if he weren't such an evil murdering slime, it would almost be funny. Or it would sound like another 527 ad.


: BILL MAHER UPDATE: Maher says some of the stuff in the bin Laden tape "I swear to God could have come out of the Democratic National Committee or a Kerry speech."

It's a lot for a war we aren't even suppose to be fighting in right now!! I wonder why they gas prices have gone up?? hmmm.

"I wonder why they gas prices have gone up??"

Now we see your real reason for opposing the liberation of Iraq...because you have to pay more at the pump. Unreal! At least you're not as decadent as the governor of New Jersey who put his state's anti-terrorism job in the hands of his gay lover who couldn't even attend federal security briefings because he isn't a citizen. It is AMAZING what Dems prefer to national security!

I don't have to pay more at the pump, my parents do. And the other reasons I don't like the war is that 1) We are invading another country, and they are fighting back ruthlessly. 2) I have friends and family that are over there fighting a war about oil. 3) WE ARE NOT WINNING! 4) Osama is away recruiting troops while our soldiers are toturing captives. Did you know that Bush knew that there were no weapons when he sent the troops? He sent CIA agents over there to see if there were weapons, and they came back and told him , "No President Bush, there are no weapons!" And he said, "So what?" He sent the troops over anyway! Then when the CIA agent who told him there were no Weapons told the public about this. Bush retaliated by informing the world that he and his wife were CIA agents. His wife andhim got fired from the CIA and they are out of work now, their lives are in danger, and the people that told them information are in danger. Real administration there...

"He sent CIA agents over there to see if there were weapons...when the CIA agent who told him there were no Weapons told the public about this. Bush retaliated by informing the world that he and his wife were CIA agents."

I assume you mean Joe Wilson, who has been discredited by the Senate Intelligence Committee report, the 9/11 Commission, and has himself admitted that there was evidence that Iraq tried to buy uranium from Niger. Maybe if gas prices go down, your parents will have some extra money to buy you a clue! You Dems are so blinded by Bush-hatred you can't even get the facts straight. Now there's a reason to panic!

"that there was evidence that Iraq tried to buy uranium from Niger." The U.S. tried to use a document as evidence that Iraq was trying to smuggle uranium. It turned out to be a forged document. Since then I have never heard about anything else suggesting that there was a possiblity Iraq was trying to buy Uranium. I'm going to check Joe Wilson's statement and those other sources you provided.

That link sent me to commandpost.com. That's website is for people who are supporters of the war and are likely conservative. I tend to be skeptical of anything political websites write. You have to watch for spin when you read politically one-sided literature. It's their own interpretation and they hand pick bits of information they feel will better serve their purpose. Here's the important part of the reader's interpretation of that book*

"Wilson says he refuted the forgeries�f central allegation that Niger had been negotiating a sale of uranium to Iraq."

It definitely confirms there was some disagreement over whether the documents were forged or not. But my question is did this disagreement occur while they were having discussions about it and therefore before the conclusion and announcement that it was forged, or after it went public it was forged? I would have to read the book myself and make my own decision. I definitely wouldn't take another person's word, especially if they are loyal to a certain political group. Either way, forged or not forged, there are still some strong reasons to be against the war.

I made a mistake. It was not Joseph Wilson's book he claimed to have learned that from and I misunderstood the quote I posted as well. I was a little hasty because I have other things to do besides messing around on this site as usual. It was a washington post article.

But the article says nothing about Joseph Wilson changing his mind about those forgeries. Actually, he still believes George Bush deliberately mislead the public in his state of the union address.

quote 1:

"That knowledge (recently from the Nigerian source) has not altered Wilson's much-expressed view that the Bush administration distorted intelligence on Iraq's weapons capabilities to help make the case for going to war."

It does say he recently learned the identity of a supicious Iraqi who at the time back in 1999 was doing trade in Nigeria.

quote 2: "Wilson wrote that he did not learn the identity of the Iraqi official until this January, when he talked again with his Niger source."


There was a suspicion at that time he was trying to get uranium. That's all. It never said he believes now that this person was trying to get uranium.

quote 3:

"It was Saddam Hussein's information minister, Mohammed Saeed Sahhaf, often referred to in the Western press as "Baghdad Bob," who approached an official of the African nation of Niger in 1999 to discuss trade -- an overture the official saw as a possible effort to buy uranium. "

Please tell me what you think these quotes mean, any posters who take the time to read this post. What I would like to know is if anyone thinks this means that Joseph Wilson now believes Iraq was trying to get uranium.

Personally, I don't think so.

You can look at the article yourself at http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A54640-2004Apr29¬Found=true

The real reason to panic is that you pubs. have a problem with facts, not us 'dems.' I don't know what facts you claim I don't have straight, but you need to turn on the news more often or maybe you need to turn on your brain, cause obviously it's been off for a while. And my parents don't need to buy me a clue, cause I have one, maybe if your parents had bought you a clue when they had a chance you wouldn't be such an idiot.

"there was evidence that Iraq tried to buy uranium from Niger"

I have not seen anything to suggest, and this includes that washington post article you tried to use as proof, that Joseph Wilson believes there was evidence that Iraq tried to buy uranium from Niger.

This is why we must take what other people say with a grain of salt.

I'm going to try. I'm going to poise the pen over the box next to Kerry's name. I'm going to try to find some position he's taken that he might believe, that might be congruent with one that seems wise or good for our country. I'm going to try to forget the incredible condescension of expecting us to believe in plans he has but won't describe. I'm going to try to forget the hip-hops on the war. I'm going to work at believing that Moore, Soros, and P.Diddy care about their country, or alternatively, that they are merely another cynical exploitation of the far-left base. I'll pretend that if he wins, they won't call in their chits. If possible, I may even forget the episode of the dead goose, which (in a very small matter) so obviously and grossly showed his contempt for the intelligence of the electorate.

I'm going to try. But even now I can't guarantee that the pen will fill in the box next to his name. If you can't find a position to agree with, you fall back on character, and it looks to me like his character is just a contemptible and apatetic attempt to say anything to reach anyone.

Incidentally, ladies and gentlemen, if this is intended to be a support group, it falls a little short of effectiveness, at least for this reader.

I am going to address that last post, happily, Kerry has all his plans elaboratly described on his website if you want the plans. Second of all Bush has a plan straight out right? More of the Same.... um you mean the part where we went to war for no reason or the same letting Osama escape? How about the losing Job's same? Or the give rich whites a tax break same? Personally I believe that Kerry's plans to roll back the tax breaks for rich whites, including himself, is pretty clear. Or the neogotiations with other countries plan seemed pretty crystal clear... maybe someone has been watching to much fox...

"I believe that Kerry's plans to roll back the tax breaks for rich whites, including himself, is pretty clear."

Oh really? First of all, aren't you a little race-obsessed. I think you're racist for believing only white people are rich. But, given that the Kerry's only pay a 12.8% tax rate now (much lower than the Bush rate for their bracket) wouldn't it rather seem obvious that Kerry will raise the official rate and continue the loopholes that allow him and his wife to pay a lower percentage than the average middle class family?

I am in the middle class and I believe that Kerry is better then Bush, because Bush has already put our country into a three trillon dollar defecit. As many of my friends would say, "Anyone but Bush."

Nice orange tan! Did he decide not to windsurf before he decided to... Mary Cheney can kick Edward's ass!!!

Mary Cheney can kick Edward's ass? How do you know that? And about the windsurfing thing, Kerry might be a flip flopper, but Bush is just a flop. Vote Kerry for president.

kerie is a booty boob

Who's Kerie?

No that is not obvious. I think you need to have someone you trust, because you are having a hard time understanding that maybe someone in this world is telling the truth when he says he is going to roll back the tax cut. I know it is hard to trust anyone after this administration but maybe if you give Kerry a chance you'll understand that _some_ people don't lie to everyone.

In his video Osama says that neither Bush nor Kerry can protect America against terrorists. Great that is just what we need; another undecided voter

When the Republican grass roots party organizers directed their rank and file to cross over and vote for the weakest, most ineffectual, and ridiculous candidate with a chance to defeat Bush, they sealed our fate by ensuring Kerry's nomination and helping cast Dean as an unstable bomb thrower. Realizing their own mistake in putting Bush in office, and that he is so universally hated by the left and liberal leaning moderates that almost anyone could legitimately challenge him for office this year, they have pushed us into electing the Democratic Party candidate most likely to ensure a massive conservative and moderate backlash in 2008, and forever foreclose the possibility of a succussful run by Hilary Clinton or any other credible Democratic candidate in 2008 or 2012. In trade for 4 years of stasis while Kerry and Edwards make asses of themselves and Theresa insults their base, the citizens and the rest of the world, the Republicans will have ushered in another 8 years of control over both the White House and Congress. And, in the bargain, they will have preempted precisely the same sort of unmitigated backlash against their party by putting a second term for Bush in jeopardy, probably snapping it off with his narrow defeat by piker Kerry. And, because I'm the sort of idiot they all know populate the left, I'm going to get right in line and vote for Kerry and help walk us all into the buzz saw. I loathe myself almost as much as I loathe John and Theresa Kerry and John Edwards--the millionaires who have no more connection to the real America than Bush, and the lawyer who's may a fortune off the broken backs of working people. What scum. Somebody shoot me.

You're on to something. We should all shoot ourselves. What a great way to protest the non-choice the party's given us. I'll shoot you if you shoot me. Let's all get on board for a mass suicide pact! And, if we shoot each other tomorrow morning, early, we'll have time to make the evening news and may even deprive the DNC from voting for us (our death certificates won't be available to use for fraudulent voting registrations or ballots until after the election's over). And, if we all go out and buy assault weapons, we can kill each other faster and send a double message! Who says we lack courage and are stupid? Who's with me?

More gun violence is not the answer. We should all drink some poison Kool-Ade when the polls open, or better yet all walk into the streets and open our wrists. That has a nice Greek tragedy aspect to it.

Your so messed up. We'd just be playing into that what's his name "the American" terrorist guy's threat that the streets will run red with the blood drop for drop for all our victims. Why can't we stop always being somebody's dupe? Hanging. Hanging doesn't have any real political overhang to interfere with the message we're sending. Let's all hang ourselves.

I'm more of a KerryShruggerForKerry -- any place for us?

Gotta vote for Kerry so that someone doesn't nuke us before i can vote for John McCain in 2008. Not that that might not happen anyway.. Weak.

McCain would have made a great Democratic nominee. No one that moderate will be on the GOP ticket in 2008.

"McCain would have made a great Democratic nominee. No one that moderate will be on the GOP ticket in 2008."

I would consider voting for him if he could get the nomination.

"Gotta vote for Kerry so that someone doesn't nuke us before i can vote for John McCain in 2008."

ha! ha!

I don't really understand why everyone thinks McCain is some great moderate. He's moderate on a few issues, such as campaign finance, but on social issues? Whew. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

"I don't really understand why everyone thinks McCain is some great moderate. He's moderate on a few issues, such as campaign finance, but on social issues? Whew. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?"

Tell me his stance on social issues.

McCain:

Against abortion
Against gay marriage
Against flag burning
Against affirmative action (at least in fed gov't)
Against Kyoto treaty

For death penalty
For charter schools and vouchers
For 10 commandments in public places
For free trade (and the trappings that come w/ it like outsourcing)
For privatizing social security
For Iraq war
For school prayer

For the most part, he's your typical Republican.

"McCain: Against abortion Against gay marriage Against flag burning Against affirmative action (at least in fed gov't) Against Kyoto treaty For death penalty For charter schools and vouchers For 10 commandments in public places For free trade (and the trappings that come w/ it like outsourcing) For privatizing social security For Iraq war For school prayer For the most part, he's your typical Republican. "

Thank you. You just educated me or if you want to put it in a way more humiliating for me, how about saved me from my ignorance.

But I didn't know much about him, but what little I knew about him gave me a good impression. I think it's his integrity more than what his choices that were making him an appealing candidate. He's always spoke up no matter how it made him look in front of the two major parties. But I see your point. If that's how he feels on all those issues, then he by far doesn't represent me.

The appealing part about McCain is that he's very frank and not afraid to break with his party on issues he feels strongly about. For example, he pushed through campaign finance reform, he's pro stem-cell, and he's more environmental conscious than the rest of the Republican party.

If you want a more detailed listing of his positions, I suggest you visit http://www.issues2000.org/John_McCain.htm

"If you want a more detailed listing of his positions, I suggest you visit http://www.issues2000.org/John_McCain.htm"

Thanks a lot!

Against abortion

[good ,lord, FOR saving lives, the fiend]

Against gay marriage

[like every civilization on the face of the planet, for say, oh i dunno, lets say 10,00 years - he's whacky!]

Against flag burning

[he's gonna piss off all thos flag-buring "patriots" - wonder if he was counting on their votes]

Against affirmative action (at least in fed gov't)

[jee wiz, believing in preferences based on someones skin color instead of the content of their character - wonder if he'll miss the racist vote]

Against Kyoto treaty

[a treay that doesnt punish the worst abuser (china) - seems rediculous, he isnt self-hating enough]

For death penalty

[believing victims have rights over criminals - i guess he loses the criminal vote, that should go to hillary anyway]

For charter schools and vouchers

[pro choice! oh, well, NOT when it comes to educating your children, only killing them - he's a fascist, and probably hates his children]

For 10 commandments in public places

[could lead to rampant acts of kindness - NO!]

For free trade (and the trappings that come w/ it like outsourcing)

[and the dirty litle brother the left hides in the closet, insourcing - wouldnt want job creation of 5 to 1 in excess of job loss, no, that would be too, uh good for us]

For privatizing social security

[choice again! stamp it out! the government is smarter and wiser than we are! look how they have handled the surplus the last 60 years - he just doesnt learn from history, recent history]

For Iraq war

[stopping a genocide is no business of a compassionate people such as the united states. we would rather discuss it and condemn it than stop it - he just doesnt know how to get things done, does he]

For school prayer

[what a waste of time, there is no god, everybody knows that. man is god, and government is god - HE's extreme]

Recently, someone claimed Joseph Wilson now believes Iraq really did try to get uranium. He left a link to what appears to be a political website that includes an interpretation of a washington post article. He claims that the article suggests or says that Wilson changed his mind about the findings from before and now thinks Iraq really did try to get uranium. I had a different impression, but maybe I didn't understand the article well. This is what I somehow found when reading it.

It does say he recently learned the identity of a supicious Iraqi who at the time back in 1999 was doing trade in Nigeria.

quote 1: "Wilson wrote that he did not learn the identity of the Iraqi official until this January, when he talked again with his Niger source."

quote 2: "Wilson did not get the Iraqi's name in 2002, but he writes that he talked to his source again four months ago, and that the former official said he saw Sahhaf on television before the start of the war and recognized him as the person he talked to in 1999."


There was a suspicion at that time he was trying to get uranium. That's all. It never said he believes now that this person was trying to get uranium.

quote 3:"It was Saddam Hussein's information minister, Mohammed Saeed Sahhaf, often referred to in the Western press as "Baghdad Bob," who approached an official of the African nation of Niger in 1999 to discuss trade -- an overture the official saw as a possible effort to buy uranium. "

quote 4:"Tenet's statement noted that Wilson had reported back to the CIA that a former Niger official told him that "in June 1999 a businessman approached him and insisted that the former official meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss 'expanding commercial relations' between Iraq and Niger. The former official interpreted the overture as an attempt to discuss uranium sales."

quote 5: "In his book, Wilson recounts his encounter with the unnamed Niger official in 2002 (not recently), saying, he "hesitated and looked up to the sky as if plumbing the depths of his memory, then offered that perhaps the Iraqi might have wanted to talk about uranium."

The article says nothing about Joseph Wilson changing his mind about those forgeries. Actually, he still believes George Bush deliberately mislead the public in his state of the union address.

quote 6: "That information (recently from the Nigerian source about the Iraqi national's identity) has not altered Wilson's much-expressed view that the Bush administration distorted intelligence on Iraq's weapons capabilities to help make the case for going to war."

Please tell me what you think these quotes mean, any posters who take the time to read this post. What I would like to know is if anyone thinks this means that Joseph Wilson now believes Iraq was trying to get uranium.

Personally, I don't think so.

You can look at the article yourself at http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A54640-2004Apr29¬Found=true

Hey

Worst case scenario: Kerry Wins; Result in no major damage. The man does not eat a sandwhich without checking the polls, to see if he should have cheese or not. He is useless. It will be like the movie, if he wins Kerry looks around and says "Now What"???

The worst thing for the Democrats ( serious here) is a Kerry win.. It is a mess he will inherit, a republican house and senate, which means a republican in 08....No Hillary---The Clintons DO NOT WANT a Kerry win...

I JUST VOTED FOR CARL SMENGLERBERG, FAMOUS HURLER OF THE BRACKTENBALL! VOTE FOR HIM TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

HA HA HA HA AHA

he's the biggest douchbag ive ever voted for. i feel ashamed to tell family and friends what i have done insofar as voting for him but bush has to be worse...

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

you know, since kerry lost and everything...

shouldn't there be millions of dailykos / michael moore types in here right now??

GO GWB....

No .. The time of sites such as these has ended.

The fight is over, the battle is finished, and the result is a loss for John Kerry.

Today, the KH4K forums are quiet. There is no Kerry to support.

Today, the DU forums are *sealed* to all but their registered members; spreading activism no longer matters when your candidate has failed.

Today the `new media` of the internet is strangely quiet, in those gathering places where the anti-Bush friends held their dreams - The effort of a two year campaign, of a huge grassroots movement, of a huge internet-based advocacy, of incredible sums of money, has been placed in the toilet. Flushing sounds are heard.


It is done. There is nothing more to see here. Two years of work have brought us to nothing.

Only 17% of the "vital" 18-to-24 demographic got out to vote. I sincerely hope each and every one of you made it to a polling place yesterday, that each and every one of you voted.

It was not enough.

Say goodnight, Gracie.

Only 17% of the "vital" 18-to-24 demographic got out to vote.

I cannot believe how many people have told me that in the past four days. It's totally wrong.

The actual statistic you're quoting from here was that 17% of all people who voted were 18-29. The percentage of that age bracket who actually voted was over 50%. That is lower than the national average, but much higher than it was four years ago, when only about 35% of them voted.

All I know is 100% of my two 18-24 years voted the right way, GWB

I don't CARE if a Kerry win have been bad for the democrats, it would have been marginally better for the country and the world. What a sad day today. Which is the worst thought, that it was rigged or that we actually elected that chimp-man? I don't know what to do. If it were obvious fraud we would riot, but now we just have to take their word for it and "let the healing begin?" I'm at a loss. I really want to do something, and I have no idea what to do. It all seems so hopeless.

Thank you - you said exactly what I and many others feel grieving and hopelessness are natural reactions now...yep, basically it's fucked.

Disregard the ugly response of small dick below here.... :)

If you really what to do something, why not try growing up, read a little history, a lot of research about the parties and what they stand for. Unless you just hate Bush because you are afraid you might have to go fight in a war, in which case you are a coward, or is there some other �reason� you hate him?

You whining brat. See the previous string suggesting you just kill yourself. Otherwise, get off your shiftless ass and do something meaningful for yourself and those around you, whatever your apparently limited capacity for understanding and creativity affords you the insight to do, until 2008, the next occassion on which you'll have an opportunity to exercise your right to vote in the greatest nation of opportunity and personal liberty on the planet. If nothing else comes to mind, consider volunteering for the Marines and grow up. Jeez. You'd think you took this site and John Kerry's candidacy seriously. Adios.

Thank you for 4 more years of Bush. Thank you for demoralizing Kerry that encouraged more Bush support.

We are reaping what we sow.

Keep your heads up all those who are disappointed. You have every right to be disappointed, but it's not over. Some day adminstrations like these will be something of the past. They're backward way of dealing with with life and the world is in a decline. Gradually, their culture will be phased out by new generations with a fresh way of thinking. But I say gradually because change doesn't happen over night, and probably shouldn't. A little at a time it will. Let them enjoy their victory while it lasts because time isn't on their side.

I am tired of people saying they had to vote for Kerry, I did'nt vote for either Obama nor Keys for senator of Illinois, if you can't find anything positive in a candidate - don't vote.

KERRY'S AN ASS.

"That sounds much more like hope than an empirical statement."

when hope is turned into change, empirical statements can be altered, or as past ones, contradicted.

Carl Rove's Delight...

The top priorities of Kerry's Campaign Manager - New Yorker Magazine

Shrum and Oates believe in many of the same liberal causes, with gay rights near the top of the list. The gay activist and writer David Mixner, who worked with Oates in Eugene McCarthy��s 1968 campaign, considers her his ��best friend�� and Shrum one of his oldest friends. ��She��s been one of the biggest champions of gay-and-lesbian rights�Xas has Bob�Xsince 1978,�� he said. Mixner, who lives in Washington, said that between the nineteen-eighties and the early nineties nearly three hundred friends of his died of aids, and in that period the Shrums gave time and money to help build ��a primary-care network of support for people with aids.�� Oates is today the official liaison of the gay-and-lesbian community to the Kerry finance committee.



Later, Shrum sat on the edge of a couch in a hotel suite with Oates, David Mixner, and another gay-activist friend, Jeff Soref. He wanted to see John Edwards��s acceptance speech, and he preferred to watch on television. Keeping his eyes on the screen, he sipped Cabernet Sauvignon, ate popcorn, quivered every time a cell phone rang, and moved his lips along with the speech, announcing at various points,

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040920fa_fact4

Yet one more reason to hate Kerry.

Two words. Al Franken.

Filthy mouthed comic from Saturday night live. His specialty is bringing to
Air America racist and religious insult 'humor'.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/col/story/192671p-166266c.html

He previously tried to help Al Gore win hearts and minds by almost convincing him to do on national TV what Franken loves best - fart jokes.

http://www.thenationaldebate.com/blogger/archive/2003_12_01_TND-ARCHIVE.html

He's helping Air America by introducing listeners around the country to another part of his fascination with 'poop', by showcasing one of the acts that he helped bring to american TV. Triumph the Insult comic dog.

He and his friends at Air America featured the new cd from this act called 'Come Poop With Me'.

http://www.airamericaradio.com/weblogs/alfrankenshow/index.php?/franken/old_entry_353/

http://www.triumphtheinsultcomicdog.com/


Oh by the way.. he's for outsourcing jobs.

http://www.freecolorado.com/2004/10/franken.html

Al fools a lot of people by talking up his wife and relatives in Maine to show he's really a decent person. Sort of like what Howard Stern did with his wife and family. Notice the past tense. Alison eventually got sick of the filth and left him.

How long will Frannie be able to put up with this? What does she say to her Catholic relatives in Maine when Al jokes about how he got an Irish Catholic girl, deflowered her, and got her to give up her faith. How about his jokes about maxi pad/maxi-bitch? What do Frannie's inlaws say when he does his jokes about feces, ethnic and religious stereotypes? Will she become the next Alison Stern?

Some people say that demeaning humor is a form of abuse. Al himself calls it 'kidding on the square', when someone says a joke but somewhere inside really means it.

Kerry was too much of a wimp to get away from this pig and his dirty radio and TV buddies.

This past Christmas (christmas day actually) one of the other Air America hosts had a special on masturbation, 'coprophilia' (feces fetish), and a few other choice topics.

When people say to hold your nose and vote for Democrats it might be more literal than they think.

What are you talking about? You are either insane, or a paid extremist who is throwing out lies.

The real issue on this page is that you are trying to avert people's realizing the havoc George Bush and his extremist puppet masters are wrecking on America. You extremists are so blind to anything but your kindergarten fetishes that you can't, or won't, see that you are the minority. You only exist because of phony issues like Al Franken. You are laughable. The world is laughing at you.

bush is crap

In 2002. '03, and '04, the Bush people interviened in 31 primaries. In every single one, they backed a moderate against a conservative: examples include Specter over Toomey in Penna, and Schwarzenegger over McClintock in California. He won 28 of the 30, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of the 28 got elected.
With such a track record for moderates against conservatives, how can you call Bush an extremist? That is the type of blind, fuzzy thinking that lost for the Democrats and, if not corrected, will lose again.
John Froelich

bush is an idiotic sack of crap.

kerry is a spineless sack of crap.

Is this really the best we can do, America?

It's wonderful that the panic room is still open. Eight months later and we're panicking, man, are we ever panicking. Of course, if Kerry had won and had to face the same lineup of assholes in Congress, things would be even uglier. So, as it says on the main site, win-win.

It is ridiculous.

Ok.

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